Mosquito gets finishing touches

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:25 pm

Something that sometimes influences the "who" when it comes to flying (and test flying a seventy year old airplane in particular) is the insurance issue. I wouldn't fret over who they choose to do it as whoever it is will be more than up to the task.

51fixer · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:39 pm

Red Baaron wrote:

[

51fixer wrote:

Its a great place for knowledge and seeing how modern warbirds are operated and maintained.

Apparantly its not if you actually ask about the operation.

I'm only gonna tell you what I want you to know-
Page 1-
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21830
Page 92-
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21830&start=1365

Maybe some of the answers are in between.

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:16 pm

Chill out guys, there's no need to turn a good thread into an argument, especially over something as trivial as this.

Daveymac, have a look at Mr Weeks' Facebook page, he seems to fly a different old type from his collection at least once a week. I love his slogan on that page, "When I grow up, I want to be me." Don't we all?

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:24 pm

Couple of points, before I go play with aircraft...

A test pilot is a qualified test pilot, not an experienced pilot. Easy concatenation, very different.

There is no one current on Mosquitoes today. The last flight was in 1996.

Mosquito flying is not a black art; there's extensive documentation on it, and the men chosen to fly it are well versed, qualified and another minor point, New Zealanders and local. Those latter points make it easier logistically. (Personally, I think it should be a Kiwi pilot, too. After all it's a predominantly a Kiwi achievement with overseas help and money.)

As I said before, the test flying is actually one of the easy steps in the story (the pilots would agree, other than the responsibility) the hard work was making a Mosquito. Let's (just for once) recognise it's really about the guys on the ground that made it happen.

BTW, I'm a big fan of Kermit and his collection, this is just observations to the point on the Mozzie.

Regards,

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:34 pm

Well put James.

And it should be remembered that the restoration team had no previous experience of rebuilding a Mosquito either, but they have done a magnificent job of it so far.

As James says, having test pilots who are nearby and available at short notice - as no-one knows quite what day the aircraft will be ready to fly - is a huge advantage. No overseas pilot would want to hang around in a hotel for weeks waiting for the call.

There are still living pilots in the UK who flew the British Aerospace Mosquito too, I believe. One of them is now apparently involved with the Peoples Mosquito projrect and flies the Vulcan.

Firebird · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:23 pm

Red Baaron wrote:

But you seem to keep missing my point. Regardless of their experience, flying ability, political affiliation, marital status or whatever, how many pilots still available today, have flown the Mosquito?

I think you are also missing a very important point in that there are still active pilots around (and who also happen to be qualified test pilots) that have flown a Mosquito since Kermit has :wink:

Kermit last flew his Mosquito in around 1990/91ish, and the BAe operated Mosquito RR299 didn't crash until 1996, so that's 5 or so years after Kermit last flew his. The BAe Mosquito was only flown by a selection of BAe qualified Test Pilots, so the crew that perished with RR299 were not the sole current at the time crew of the a/c.

I'm sure given KS's experience, the first flight of KA114 will be in good hands :drink3:

Red Baaron · **Joined:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:54 pm **Posts:** 98

Firebird wrote:

I think you are also missing a very important point in that there are still active pilots around (and who also happen to be qualified test pilots) that have flown a Mosquito since Kermit has :wink:

Actually, that is one of the points I was trying to make but couldn't get an answer to. I wanted to know, besides Kermit Weeks and Skip Holm, were there any currently flying pilots who had flown the Mosquito? I don't know the names of anyone that flew RR299 so I don't know if they are still around and flying or not.

I thank you for your response because it partially answers that question.

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:29 pm

Red Baaron wrote:

Actually, that is one of the points I was trying to make but couldn't get an answer to.

Far be it from me to deliberately poke the embers of trouble, but you didn't make that very clear in your original question, which is repeated below.

Red Baaron wrote:

I wonder why they aren't getting Kermit Weeks to test fly this airplane? I'm sure the two pilots they have chosen are qualified, competent guys but it sure seems to me that they would go with experience in the type. Considering that Kermit is probably the only guy left around today that is still flying and has flown a Mosquito, it looks like they would go with him. Just the fact that he has flown one makes him more experienced than anybody that hasn't.

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:32 pm

As far as a civil aviation authority is concerned, and IMHO rightly so, experience held so long ago is not considered relevant as much as a test flying plan based on an analysis of the standard requirements and a wider selection of Mosquito flight guidance. The authority and a wise owner will be looking for pilots who have both recent relevant experience of multi-piston time, and can demonstrate the ability to carry out a test flight programme to the required parameters.

Opinion of those who flew the last airworthy Mosquito would probably be sought, however that kind of data remains only a 'gloss' on the published pilots notes and records kept of operation parameters of BAe and so forth.

In other words, while it seems reasonable that any type experience would be valued, it is, IMHO rightly, not at all, compared to other demonstrated experience and currency.

Regards

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:54 pm

And at the risk of banging on a bit myself, the pilot is not very important.

Their main role is not to screw up (i.e. to minimise time in the high-risk areas of the performance envelope) and to confirm a very accurately made artifact behaves exactly as the factory-built examples did. That is, in the whole project, a very minor element, compared to almost everything else.

So it's a validation and 'don't drop it' task.

Compared to the incredible (if I misused the word 'awesome', that would do remarkably well) achievement of making the wing and fuselage structure as Glyn Powell and his few assistants have done, and the also incredible achievement of Warren Denholm's Avspecs crew in fitting-out and completing the aircraft, not to mention all those others who have played roles and in a key case funded it - driving the the thing is comparatively minor. However the cult of the pilot's status in aviation rolls ever on...

I've certainly seen all the living British Mosquito pilots in action, but I don't know their names, because it isn't, actually, important.

Obviously the foregoing is just my opinion, I simply hope it provokes some thought.

Regards,

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:03 pm

Not to forget that some of those pilots who flew the Mosquito 25-odd years ago may now be well into their 60's, and there are age restrictions on British pilots flying multi-engined warbirds too.

The pilot I mentioned above who I thought had flown the BAe Mosquito and now flies the Vulcan is Bill Ramsey, but I may have been mistaken, he was a former BBMF Lancaster pilot so may not have any Mosquito time.

jack973 · **Joined:** Mon May 28, 2012 11:14 am **Posts:** 215

Red Baaron · **Joined:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:54 pm **Posts:** 98

Dave Homewood wrote:

Red Baaron wrote:

Actually, that is one of the points I was trying to make but couldn't get an answer to.

Far be it from me to deliberately poke the embers of trouble, but you didn't make that very clear in your original question, which is repeated below.

Red Baaron wrote:

I wonder why they aren't getting Kermit Weeks to test fly this airplane? I'm sure the two pilots they have chosen are qualified, competent guys but it sure seems to me that they would go with experience in the type. Considering that Kermit is probably the only guy left around today that is still flying and has flown a Mosquito, it looks like they would go with him. Just the fact that he has flown one makes him more experienced than anybody that hasn't.

But I did make it clear in this post:

Red Baaron wrote:

I'm sure you are correct that there are several pilots just as capable as Kermit Weeks. But not many of them are going to have the flying experience that he has. I'm not talking about flying ability or talent, I'm talking about the different types of aircraft and sheer number of makes, models and designs. But you seem to keep missing my point. Regardless of their experience, flying ability, political affiliation, marital status or whatever, how many pilots still available today, have flown the Mosquito? I had forgotten that Skip Holm had flown one. Howard Pardue is the only other person I can think of off hand that had flown one with any recency (last 25 yrs or so) but he's gone now.

I refered to it again in this post:

Red Baaron wrote:

The part you cut out of my quote was "...that have flown the Mosquito?" Do you think you could simply answer the question? If you can't then I don't see why you are bothering to respond.

I'm not pressing the issue for Kermit Weeks. I'm just wondering out loud. Sorry, I didn't realize you were an employ, policy setter and spokemodel for Avspecs.

I'll look for a more welcoming forum to ask my questions. I thougt I'd try this one as I saw it advertised in Classic Wings. But thanks for the welcome Mark M. Allen, I've been here for a day and a half and you have already killed the fun.

I asked it again here. twice in the same post actually:

Red Baaron wrote:

You didn't answer my question. And it is the same question I have specifically asked twice now. I even made a point to specifically mention it in my last message. How many people today, currently flying, have flown a Mosquito? There are two that have been mentioned here. Are there any more? If you don't know the answer then kindly leave it alone. Maybe somebody else knows some names.

51fixer wrote:

Ben,
1st Welcome.
I don't want to kill the fun but you've jumped in a little strong on some things.
Kermit Weeks is his own man. I don't see him jumping into another organizations operations whether qualified or not. Even though he has Mossie flight experience he is so far out of date flying one that it almost won't count to be legal to fly one. It is called being current.

I appreciate the welcome. I'm honestly not trying to come on strong at all and that wasn't the intent. I asked a fairly simple question and Mr. Allen got snotty right off the bat and won't leave it alone. If he can't answer then I don't know why he's bothering to respond with the same thing over and over. I've been flying for a few years now and have done some twin beech flying and some stearman flying along with a lot of less interesting civilian types. I understand the currency issue, type ratings, proficiency and the legalities and the stuff you are talking about. I'm not even kind of hinting that they made the wrong choice. Far from it actually. I was just looking purely from an experience level and nothing else. Kermit has flown one, the chosen pilots haven't. Thats all I was trying to get at. Well, that and I'm still wondering the answer to my question about currently flying, experienced, Mosquito pilots.

So, I think it was pretty clear that I was asking about pilots, still flying, with time in the Mosquito. Certain people were so wrapped around the axle about the fact that I might dare to ask a question about flight experience that the question referred to many times was missed.

JDK wrote:

And at the risk of banging on a bit myself, the pilot is not very important.

I hope and pray that you are not consulted very often on who actually gets to fly any airplane. No doubt the mechanics, financial backers and such are important as certainly none of this would have happened without them. But just to say that the pilot isn't important really does smack of somebody that doesn't know how to fly. It sounds like somebody who from reading and research and writing has decided that they actually know what it takes to operate an airplane. They don't actually have a license but they may have taken the controls in the air or stood on the side and watched somebody fly and say that looks easy enough.

JDK wrote:

I've certainly seen all the living British Mosquito pilots in action, but I don't know their names, because it isn't, actually, important.

Obviously the foregoing is just my opinion, I simply hope it provokes some thought.

Regards,

I really mean no personal offense but opinion or not, that is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written anywhere. Granted, it's not essential for life but why on earth would their names be any less important than the names of the mechanics or other support people? The names of all these people are important because in the future somebody might be interested in knowing what it took to build, operate and fly an ancient airplane that for those of us in the generation, was still flying in what we considered modern times. We read and wonder what it was like to operate them in war time seventy years ago. Why wouldn't somebody, in the 22nd century, be interested in knowing what it was like during peacetime in the late 20th early 21 century? The pilots that did it are important. As are the people that built it and the people that made it possible to do so.

Dave Homewood wrote:

Not to forget that some of those pilots who flew the Mosquito 25-odd years ago may now be well into their 60's, and there are age restrictions on British pilots flying multi-engined warbirds too.

I'm not suggesting that the current pilots be replaced. I'm simply asking who else has done it. It was never my intention to question anything that has been done with this restoration/recreation. The job they have done is beyond amazing. I simply started by asking why somebody else wasn't chosen for a task and it fell apart from there.

Chappie · **Joined:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:40 am **Posts:** 987

Dave Homewood wrote:

Chill out guys, there's no need to turn a good thread into an argument, especially over something as trivial as this.

Agreed. How's it going down there Dave? Any new photos? I hear engine runs are coming up.

Chappie

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