Dec 7th '41? Aircraft Engine "Chunk" Identification

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

I found this piece of an aircraft engine many years ago on Oahu, Hawaii.....it was with tons of other aircraft parts. I have no idea what type of aircraft it goes to and would like to see if it is possibly from an aircraft that was present OR destroyed on December 7th 1941. It was found near Schofield/Wheeler AAF base. The nomenclature plate (very rusty):
Franklin Engine 0-X00-11 (X could be a 2 or 3) X-5202x3 (X maybe a 5 and x maybe a 2 or 3) maybe the A/C S/N. I need something to go on in order to start the research.....and I've got nothing! Fire away!

and

John Dupre · **Posted:** Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:20 pm

Looks like the oil sump of a Franklin O-200-11 engine. The O-200 was a four cylinder horizontally opposed air cooled engine used in the Interstate L-6 Cadet liason aircraft and the Culver PQ drone target aircraft and numerous small light planes from before WW2. Franklins are pretty rare nowadays. Several of the civilian aircraft airborne over Oahu on Dec. 7 were Interstates with Franklin engines. Not sure just which particular types used the -11. The O designator at that time was military terminology for an opposed engine as compared to V for vee type or L for inline. Civilian Franklin engines had 4AC at the beginning of thier designator. Post war the military type O designators were used for most engines.

pjpahs · **Posted:** Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:42 pm

I have noticed that most ,if not all pictures of some unknown piece of aircraft needing identification would be benefitted with the addition of a scale or tape measure next to it showing relative size. Maybe even resting on a 1" grid graph paper. Just an observation .

The Inspector · **Posted:** Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:41 pm

pjpahs wrote:

I have noticed that most ,if not all pictures of some unknown piece of aircraft needing identification would be benefitted with the addition of a scale or tape measure next to it showing relative size. Maybe even resting on a 1" grid graph paper. Just an observation .

I've raised that request before also please don't post photos that are blurry or out of focus 'can you identify this?' "yeah, after I find my glasses and I sober up from the Everclear binge"

51fixer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:41 pm

Engines have their own serial numbers. The A/C serial number wouldn't normally be included on the engine data plate.
During the typical life of an engine it would be installed in a couple or a few or possibly several different airframes.
Unless you had logbooks of either the engine or the airframe it was installed in it's virtually impossible to tell where it was installed. Through the model number you can often figure out what model or models it could have been installed on. Often the S/N can give you a contract and possibly a time period it was built and possibly what service the contract was issued to.
Good luck!

51fixer · **Posted:** Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:42 pm

Double post
Move along, nothing to see here

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2308

pjpahs wrote:

I have noticed that most ,if not all pictures of some unknown piece of aircraft needing identification would be benefitted with the addition of a scale or tape measure next to it showing relative size. Maybe even resting on a 1" grid graph paper. Just an observation .

On another forum we use a "UMD" for scale, The Universal Measuring Device, aka, a soda can

like this...

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

John Dupre wrote:

Looks like the oil sump of a Franklin O-200-11 engine. The O-200 was a four cylinder horizontally opposed air cooled engine used in the Interstate L-6 Cadet liason aircraft and the Culver PQ drone target aircraft and numerous small light planes from before WW2. Franklins are pretty rare nowadays. Several of the civilian aircraft airborne over Oahu on Dec. 7 were Interstates with Franklin engines. Not sure just which particular types used the -11. The O designator at that time was military terminology for an opposed engine as compared to V for vee type or L for inline. Civilian Franklin engines had 4AC at the beginning of thier designator. Post war the military type O designators were used for most engines.

John,
I'll take another look at the data plate tonight to see if I can break out any of the data. The Franklin O-200-11 is a good start, but I can't find any really good pictures of an O-200 engine with this style of oil pan or cover. I've had this part for almost 20 years and figured it was time to figure out what it goes to. It was found with ton's of other pre-1945 military aircraft parts.
-break-
I thought the wood flooring as a "scale" for the background was sufficient as a size guide. I guess no one has seen wood flooring before.

famvburg · **Joined:** Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am **Posts:** 540

Is all wood flooring the same size?

Quest Master wrote:

John Dupre wrote:

Looks like the oil sump of a Franklin O-200-11 engine. The O-200 was a four cylinder horizontally opposed air cooled engine used in the Interstate L-6 Cadet liason aircraft and the Culver PQ drone target aircraft and numerous small light planes from before WW2. Franklins are pretty rare nowadays. Several of the civilian aircraft airborne over Oahu on Dec. 7 were Interstates with Franklin engines. Not sure just which particular types used the -11. The O designator at that time was military terminology for an opposed engine as compared to V for vee type or L for inline. Civilian Franklin engines had 4AC at the beginning of thier designator. Post war the military type O designators were used for most engines.

John,
I'll take another look at the data plate tonight to see if I can break out any of the data. The Franklin O-200-11 is a good start, but I can't find any really good pictures of an O-200 engine with this style of oil pan or cover. I've had this part for almost 20 years and figured it was time to figure out what it goes to. It was found with ton's of other pre-1945 military aircraft parts.
-break-
I thought the wood flooring as a "scale" for the background was sufficient as a size guide. I guess no one has seen wood flooring before.

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

famvburg wrote:

Is all wood flooring the same size?

OMG

famvburg....you're right! Per http://www.homedepot.com normal wood floor sizing is somewhere between 3" and 5" in the U.S. (of course there are smaller and bigger versions)! And of course outside of the U.S.....it could be metric sized wood. And my flooring is laminate not real wood, so maybe that is the problem. How silly of me. If I post the actual length of this piece of an engine (which BTW, engines are so small that if I'm off by a few inches it will mess you all up on the scale) will you tell me the exact type of aircraft that this went to? Huh? Please?

I ask for a little bit of help....and everyone is an armchair adventurer.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7817

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

Oh stupid fat fingers....I must have posted this on the lumberinformationexchange.org
Silly me. :shock:

Fine:

Here is the engine section...on my floor next to a tape measure, a can of diet Pepsi (sorry...don't like Coke), a can of Miller Lite (just in case you don't like Pepsi), a MagLight (double AA size), a toothbrush and a Steak (yeah Ranchers Reserve on sale!!!). That should cover everything.

Back to the original post......I didn't want to sand the nomenclature plate until I had more detail about the piece (don't want to ruin history)...but I lightly sanded it tonight with some 600 grit. Still not 100% readable.
It says:
AIRCRAFT FRANKLIN ENGINE
MANUFACTURER NUMBER 0-300-11 AAF OR BUREAU NO (blank)
CONTRACT NO W3X-0XXX6107X (hard to read) MFR NO 5-5203X3
all of the XXXXXXs are hard to read. The entire plate is hard to read....even sanded.
Hope that helps with the findings.
Van

JohnB · **Posted:** Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:41 pm

While Franklins were used in Interstates, if we play the odds by the number of Franklin powered aircraft, a Stinson would be a better guess.
Pre-war 10As and postwar 108s all used Franklins. Of course that doesn't explain why they'd be at an air base.

Also postwar, don't forget about Army Bell H-13s and Hiller H-23s. Last time I was at Schofield, it had a lot of helicopters..so it could be from 50s helicopters.

Quest Master · **Joined:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 387

Hmmm.....looks like the PQ-14 was one of the aircraft that used the Franklin O-300-11. Interesting. Any others?

JohnB · **Posted:** Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:46 pm

Would the Army have based target drones at a base inland with the sea to use as a range?

Also, there doesn't appear to be any crash damage...if so, it probably wasn't shot down or crashed.

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Dec 7th '41? Aircraft Engine "Chunk" Identification

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