Warbird Information Exchange

Hi all,

Just out of curiosity, and because it's a slow holiday weekend around my house.
I've read various places that it costs around $100,000 for a "stock" Merlin engine rebuild. Approximately how many hours are required and what is a typical labor rate?

The reason I ask is because I'm in the vintage car restoration/racing business. A typical bill for the rebuild of a single cam Ferrari motor is around $80,000 to $100,000, $125,000 to $150,000 for a race motor. This is at a labor rate of $85 to $125 an hour. Parts and machining will cost between $15,000 and $20,000, the rest is pure labor.

A Merlin is much more complicated than an old Ferrari motor, so I'm surprised that the cost to rebuild would be so similar, or so I've read.

Just wondering what goes into a Merlin rebuild in terms of parts and billable hours.

No reason to ask other than my curiosity!

-AEH

I just recently had one quoted and the base overhaul price was 87K. This did not include any accessories or parts other than those required for assembly. The labor was calculated at 835 hours and a 65.00 shop rate.

The actual repair bill came in at just over 110K.

_________________
Expert:
Ex: Former.
Spurt: A drip under pressure.

I don't know if it has increased but base O/H by Roush was $125K IIRC.
They have various improvements and changes avail as well.

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

What are the core charges if you really tore one up?

The answer to that is exponentially variable. So much depends on how much is damaged beyond repair, what dash No. lower end, heads, etc. Sadly, it seems that even more depends on the mood of the guy with the parts on that day. For reference, I just spent close to 30 K on replacement cases and gears for a -9.

_________________
Expert:
Ex: Former.
Spurt: A drip under pressure.

The same thing applies to less esoteric aircraft engines.

I liken it to shopping for lobster.

The price can vary according to supply and demand at any given moment.
And yes, to a certain extent, on the mood of the supplier.

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Lest Hero-worship raise it's head and cloud our vision, remember that World War II was fought and won by the same sort of twenty-something punks we wouldn't let our daughters date.

It really isn't that bad when you consider that an IO-540 is going to set you back around 50k. Certainly not as outrageous as I thought.

$50,000 for an IO-540 overhaul? I'd love to see the breakdown of parts and labor. I'm continually baffled by the exorbitant rates associated with anything aviation, especially fifty year old mundane air-cooled engine technology. I should have been an A&P!!

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Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

Its called insurance and dealing with FAA Regulations!
Also some engine models don't receive OEM support at all or it is reduced so it complicates finding new parts and then forces engineering FAA approved repairs for worn parts.
David, aka Sabremech, is involved in creating new parts for the IO470 IIRC.

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

You would be disappointed.
Our shop rate is about half of what my wife was charged for work on her Mini, and we don't get to fudge flat rate like they do.

$50K is a bit high for a plane-jane IO540. $25-30K is more like it (assuming all the major parts are good enough to re-use)

_________________
Lest Hero-worship raise it's head and cloud our vision, remember that World War II was fought and won by the same sort of twenty-something punks we wouldn't let our daughters date.

I second that, unless youre dealing with a J2BD or one of the other odd updraft IO-540 Lycomings an overhaul shouldn't come close to 50K

Unfortunately it's a whole lot more than that now Rich. Buying a complete engine from Roush without a core that has all the upgrades is $255k. Going with the Merlin Fingers rather than the rollers lowers the price by $20k. I spect a guy could have them build an engine without the other upgrades for less but I'm not sure that would make a lot of sense. They're all designed to improve reliability and TBO which in the long run reduces per hour operating cost. I should add that a rebuild of an engine previously build by Roush would likely be significantly less since it would not need the safety upgrades done that were paid for the first time around and many of the new parts they use would likely still be servicable as well.

A good serviceable -7 core...as in it's a timed out runner you just removed from the airplane but was still running well should fetch between $40k to $50k. Ya might eke out a few more bucks if you have transport heads. I would guess other builders are getting similar money for their work. The last engine Nixon built for us 9 years ago was around $100k.

Dollar figures like that should endear us even more to those willing to spend that kind of money to keep these birds flying for all of us to ogle

John

Is anyone making Merlin engine blocks or is it not economically feasible (yet)?

i heard that roush was going to make new castings of major components eg heads blocks and other ancillary parts but ran into a brick wall with RR who refused to grant the rights to reproduce they're designs don,t patents run out?

I am still not a firm believer in all of the "upgrades" and new manufactured parts. In my experience there seems to be as many (or more) problems with the "new and improved" models. As an example (this is just an example, so please no flaming), one kind of "Merlin fingers" has a slight issue with the pads falling off. There are other issues though, and not just with the Merlin (Air Tractor crank anyone?). I will not delve into them here because I do not want to start a flame war.

It is not limited to just the Warbird stuff either. Lycoming has been building the same basic flat motor since the earth cooled, and the new ones seem to have more AD's against them than the old ones do. Come to think of it, that may apply to Cessna 172's as well.

Engineers..... You can tell them from 20 feet, but up close, you can't tell them anything.

Get back to me in 70 years and if these upgrades are still in reliable use, I might be convinced that they are ok.

_________________
Expert:
Ex: Former.
Spurt: A drip under pressure.