Potential issues for FHC and HFF @ KPAE

[The Inspector]

At 0830 this morning, 9/14/12 after some pushing and shoving by Snohomish County on the FAA for an answer about commercial flights into/out of KPAE, the FAA issued it's findings and it says there should be no significant issues with commercial operations.

Now the final decision is up to the Snohomish County Council as to whether AILLEGIANT AIR and HORIZON can start flights to PDX, GEG, LAS and other destinations. Of course, that will mean the TSA entering the picture and their potentially shutting down access for the general public to FHC's Fly Days during the Summers and HFF's General Aviation Day and Vintage Aircraft weekends, and in effect killing those events off.

It's a mixed bag of emotions, on the one hand commercial from the area would expand access to the area and eliminate a two hour drive through Seattle's (UGH) traffic to get to SEATAC but would also sort of surrender the airport to the luggage Nazis and the gropers in blue shirts. I don't see them being flexible enough to allow the great unwashed to roam around inside the fences on flying weekends or special events.

We shall see-

[WallyB]

I don't see them being flexible enough to allow the great unwashed to roam around inside the fences on flying weekends or special events.

No problem at OSH, DAY or other places. Neither museum at PAE is anywhere near the terminal.

[The Inspector]

The difference is OSH and DAY can wave very long, years and decades prior to 9/11 banners stating 'TRADITION" on a long, gilded flagpole.

KPAE would have to wave the 'tradition' POST-IT around on a coffee stirring stick. Even with the
terminal' being a mobile next to the tower, I have little faith in the Blue Meanies displaying any sort of common sense in the matter.

[CAPFlyer]

Sorry man, but you're out on a limb on this one. The Airline Sterile Area has been around since well before the TSA and things haven't changed in those regulations. There are two separate things at work here and they have been defined since well before Sept. 11th. The only changes you'll probably see is that FHC and HFF will have to establish visitor areas and provide some sort of security to prevent people from going outside that area. Then again, that's already what they have to do since they're supposed to make sure that visitors don't access the active surfaces during fly-days.

You have an incorrect idea of what the scope and authority of the TSA is on an airport. Their airline authority doesn't extend beyond the walls of the terminal. The airport is still responsible for providing security on the ramp.

[davidbray]

Sorry man, but you're out on a limb on this one. The Airline Sterile Area has been around since well before the TSA and things haven't changed in those regulations. There are two separate things at work here and they have been defined since well before Sept. 11th. The only changes you'll probably see is that FHC and HFF will have to establish visitor areas and provide some sort of security to prevent people from going outside that area. Then again, that's already what they have to do since they're supposed to make sure that visitors don't access the active surfaces during fly-days.

You have an incorrect idea of what the scope and authority of the TSA is on an airport. Their airline authority doesn't extend beyond the walls of the terminal. The airport is still responsible for providing security on the ramp.

Not quite true as far as the TSA ending at the terminal. The airport I used to work at has an airshow every year. Because of TSA regulations you are not allowed to bring any liquids in. This of course means that you have to spend between 10 and 20 dollars on water on a nice 90 degree day. This is because the TSA considers the ramp a "hot ramp" for airline traffic even during the show, with the crowd area fully fenced off... I've only been to the show once in the past few years because of this rule. I just cannot afford to spend that much money on water to survive.

[CAPFlyer]

What airport?

If you're inside the sterile area, then that's a different issue, but it is still the airport security who is enforcing the rules, not the TSA. Remember, there are 3 different entities at work at most commercial airports -

FAA (operations)
TSA (screening)
DHS (security)

If there are international operations, then you also add CBP for customs. The TSA's sole purpose is providing screening for the travelling public at the terminal. Beyond that, the airport is responsible for all other security issues.

[davidbray]

What airport?

If you're inside the sterile area, then that's a different issue, but it is still the airport security who is enforcing the rules, not the TSA. Remember, there are 3 different entities at work at most commercial airports -

FAA (operations)
TSA (screening)
DHS (security)

If there are international operations, then you also add CBP for customs. The TSA's sole purpose is providing screening for the travelling public at the terminal. Beyond that, the airport is responsible for all other security issues.

KRFD. And yes the static ramp is technically inside of the "sterile" area. Of course we are all allowed in so it is no longer sterile. It is a stupid restriction that I have heard from airport ops comes directly from the TSA. The ramp that we are on is the UPS ramp which wasn't sterile when I was working there. Shortly after I stopped working there, due to an injury, they expanded to all of the ramps. RFD is a major diversion airport for O'hare, that is the only reason I can figure for the expansion. Of course during the 3 days of statics, the ramp is completely isolated.

I understand what the TSA's original purpose is, however I also know what I was told by my former coworkers (they wanted to start screening rampies for liquids coming into our hangar.)