Google earth shows a PB4Y Bomber at Casa Grande airport

[gary1954]

it has round engines (or as we refer to them in the south as a " motor" and yes I understand that a motor is electric) ..... ....I love it, don't care what it looks like.

[turretguy]

...I believe the first using a tail swiped from a C-54.

Greetings,
People take things posted here as gospel, which is why I'd like to question the above statement.

With all due respect, I do not believe it is correct to say that the single tail for the B-24 was "swiped from the C-54."

From the wind tunnel tests and other source material I've seen, the single tail was developed by Consolidated Vultee/Convair. If anything, the C-54 and the single tail Liberator were developed simultaneously.

I question this as I am very interested in the subject and ask out of curiosity. I will gladly stand corrected if there is some presentable evidence.

Respectfully,
Nick

[Pooner]

Nick, you are correct in your statement. I think a lot of the confusion stems from two different war production plants working on a similar design at the same time period - Consolidated-Vultee/Convair working on a specific design requirement for US Navy, and Ford Motor Co. tasked to further the evolution of the Liberator for the Army.

No doubt engineering teams from each firm shared test data, but both companies were concurrently working on their own variants of "single tail B-24s" in late 1943.

The single tail design on the PB4Y-2 "Privateer" was for enhanced aerodynamic stability at low altitudes, which was a Navy requirement for its new four-engined patrol bomber.

Perhaps I can answer a couple of the questions as posed with regard to the -4Y at Casa Grande...

Yes, the airplane is still active. It was last flown 12 October 2012 for a local flight. The last airshow appearance of this airplane was at Planes of Fame Open House, Valle, AZ, in August.

The plans for the aircraft are indeed to restore it to military configuration. Short term plans for 66302 call for the removal of the former air tanker paint scheme and initial discussion is for it to appear in USCG markings. The last military assignment for this airplane was with the Coast Guard before the aircraft was declared surplus by USN at Litchfield Park, Arizona, in the late 1950s. It spent most of its life as a tanker and it is now retired from that role.

Long term plans could possibly call for restoration back into 1945 USN markings, colors and installation of gun turrets, military equipment and radar - all of which had been removed as part of the airplane's assignment with USCG.

The airplane will be open for viewing this weekend (Saturday) at the Copperstate Fly-In at Casa Grande, but there are no plans to fly it for this event. WIX members are invited to come on down and take a look.

- Robert in PHX

[Chris]

Thanks Pooner. I was hoping you'd chime in on this one since you da man. I like the idea of USCG for the plane since that particular branch of service is often overlooked and it may simplify your restoration and help keep costs down. I'll be out there one of the days, probably Saturday but maybe another day too. Look forward to seeing you.
Chris

[Steve Nelson]

With all due respect, I do not believe it is correct to say that the single tail for the B-24 was "swiped from the C-54."

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that the XB-24N and Privateer used C-54 tails. I simply recall reading once that a C-54 tail was spliced onto a B-24 as a "one-off" to test out the effectiveness of a single fin. The actual single-tail Liberator prototypes and Privateer of course had a tails that were original designs.

According to this article on the USAF Museum website, the XB-24K was the single-tail test aircraft..starting life as a B-24D and having modified a B-23 tail grafted on.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=2496

Meanwhile, according to Joe Baugher, a C-54 tail was also used at some point during testing:

In early 1943, Ford/Willow Run decided to test this assumption of better stability with a single fin and rudder. They modified a B-24D airframe to accommodate a single vertical tail unit taken from a Douglas B-23 Dragon. This aircraft was initially known as B-24ST (where the ST stood for *Single Tail*), and made its first flight on March 6, 1943. Following a change to a C-54 tailplane and a new rudder, the new fuselage was attached to another, later production B-24D airframe (B-24D-40-CO 42-40234). At the same time, it was fitted with more powerful R-1830-75 engines, each developing 1350 hp for takeoff. This airframe was also fitted with the power-operated nose turret that had been installed on later Liberators, while retaining the Consolidated tail turret.

The plans for the aircraft are indeed to restore it to military configuration. Short term plans for 66302 call for the removal of the former air tanker paint scheme and initial discussion is for it to appear in USCG markings. Long term plans could possibly call for restoration back into 1945 USN markings, colors and installation of gun turrets, military equipment and radar

That's great news! Repainting her in Coast Guard markings makes sense, since she still has most of her Coastie mods intact (a stock canopy would be nice though.)

SN

[Pooner]

Chris and Steve;

Thank you for your kind words and comments. I'll do what I can to provide photos and commentary of the transition of this airplane from firebomber back into USCG colors as it happens.

I have to admit I wasn't a fan of the one-piece firebomber windshield mod myself for the longest time and finding a replacement "greenhouse" style windscreen and upper framework was big on my personal punchlist. I remember more than a decade or so back Jay Wisler had not one but two units, brand-new old stock in crates, and I have groaned inwardly ever since that I didn't buy one just to tuck it away for a project such as this. I think the ones Jay or Don Lambert had found years ago were spares inventory for the B-24 J, and they would have dropped into place beautifully. Ah, hindsight...

While the one-piece windscreen sure does radically change the outward appearance of the airplane, I must say it was one of the most clever - and useful - modifications the firebomber operators made to the PB4Y-2. It ranks right up there with the R-2600 engine replacement as a clever modification, hence, I suppose, the term "Super Privateer."

It's a very busy cockpit up there, and I must say that big old "picture window" without framework certainly does provide an unobstructed view of everything all at once. Even the warbird purist in me has to admit this was a practical mod for its former role. I can only imagine what a handful this airplane was for the crew to drop right on in on a raging forest fire to make a slurry run and to get on out of there. The last thing in the world they wanted was something else up front to break their concentration or to block the view.

My enthusiastic suggestion to find and install the correct greenhouse was met with the sound of silence and a sharp glare from the chief pilot. While he certainly didn't take me to task on this issue, I could immediately tell he wasn't thrilled at the suggestion.

Sure would be nice to find another one in a crate, though. Maybe I'll get extra lucky one day when Mr. Wisler does a major cleaning of the warehouse and finds one tucked away back there in the corner...

[TAdan]

Thanks for the updates Pooner. I am happy to hear that they are planning on getting the Privateer back into a warbird configuration. I think the USCG scheme is a great idea. Also nice to know that a Navy scheme and turrets are possible some day too.

[george]

Thanks for all the information, Pooner. The thought that eventually it may be in USN livery with the turrets installed is something I think all of us would be amazed to see.

[Django]

Is this the correct scheme? I couldn't find anything for '45-47.

More pics here. Including a nice bright orange version!
http://kevsaviationpics.blogspot.com/search/label/B-24

[shrike]

With whitewalls, no less!