Warbird Information Exchange

This Cadet is still missing:



11-3-43. Sonora, Mexico. At approximately 1820 MWT, a Vultee BT-13A (41-22638) lost and out of fuel was landed and abandoned 25 miles east of an area called Rocky Point in a remote region of northwest Sonora, Mexico. The student pilot, Aviation Cadet Maurice Herzog, was declared missing and presumed dead. The Army Air Forces Accident Classification Committee stated, "At 1400 [MWT] A/C Herzog departed Marana Army Air Field [Marana, Arizona], solo, in a BT-13 airplane for a triangular student training cross country flight. The first two legs of the flight were negotiated by the cadet without incident. On the final lap from Safford, Arizona, to Marana, the pilot apparently became lost, overshot the home field, and landed in a sparsely populated section of northwest Sonora, Mexico. The airplane was not discovered until 14 November 1943. It was not damaged and was flown back to Marana. A search by ground and air has failed to disclose the whereabouts of A/C Herzog. Within approximately 18 miles from the point where the student landed his airplane, there is a revolving air beacon situated at the town of Punta Penasca, Sonora, Mexico, which is clearly visible from the ground where the student landed. It is felt that this would have been the most logical direction in which the student should have started walking, and he would have been able to have reach the town in a matter of very few hours, as the terrain was a type easily negotiated by foot. In only one general direction would the cadet have failed to reach a highway, railroad or roadway, and this direction referred to was composed of by far the most difficult terrain from a walking standpoint. The Form 1 was missing from the airplane when it was discovered and on the floor was a Mexican 'Tequila' bottle full of water indicating, respectively, that some disposition had been made of the Form 1 and that the airplane had been visited by someone who left the water for one purpose or another. To the end that all possibilities shall be investigated, this case has been referred to Army Intelligence and the Federal Bureau of Investigation." Investigators estimated that the airplane had been airborne for about 4 hours and 20 minutes. Copyright 2006 Anthony J. Mireles



Read more: http://usaircraft.proboards.com/index.c ... z2B56KwlHD

_________________
.
.
.

"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

Still looking for this cadet--

_________________
.
.
.

"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

I'd be interested to know how much fuel was left on board when they found the aircraft and also what the weather was in the area that day. My guess is someone heard or saw him land and then things went from bad to worse after that. It certainly is an interesting case. He must be the only missing pilot in WW2 whose a/c was found intact and flyable. Anyone know of any others?

_________________
Always looking for WW2 Half-Tracks and Parts.

Wasn't this a discussion subject about 2- 21/2 years ago?

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Has anyone thought to look into what the weather was like at the time he landed? It's Mexico, there easily could have been some nasty sand blowing around once he landed.
Just because there was a town or road nearby is no assurance that he could have seen it if there was some sand blowing around. Would have been really easy to get turned around and after an hour or two the pilot might have realized he had no idea where he was. I've been in that area in the past and stuff can kick up pretty quick and die out just as fast...

_________________
Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

I imagine it would be pretty much impossible to pin down what the weather was like there at the time of his landing with any degree of accuracy. It's a big desert - I used to fly into Hermosillo quite abit. Wish I'd known the story then. A BT-13 holds 120 gallons of gas (about five hours). I imagine in a jam like that with no navaids and no big, readily identifiable landmarks, he'd have probably held out as long as he could have and only landed once he was almost out of daylight or gas. I haven't been really lost in a long time, and thankfully never got in so deep I couldn't find myself again, but it's a lousy feeling.

_________________
Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.

A poignant and intriguing story. Maurice Herzog is remembered, sixty nine years later.

I'm puzzled though; is there an implication that Cadet Herzog may have fallen foul of people nearby? Is the area where he landed known for people who may have been unfriendly?

Discussing this story with friends, one asked whether it'd have been possible that he may have deserted? This is an uncomfortable theory, and I don't want to impugn his good name.

Fascinating, and sad.

Matt

_________________
Matt Austin - playing with warbirds since the early 80s.

See my Lee-Enfield videos at - http://www.youtube.com/user/Jollygreenslugg

That's the point I raised last time this subject came up, some opportunistic locals found him, took him to the hacienda, may have fed him and plied him with homebrewed popskull, killed him, took his stuff and tossed him in a remote ravine somewhere-'HEY MAN! Nuevo chooze'

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Makes sense, sadly.

I wonder whether that was considered the likely outcome at the time? There's also the note that his personnel records were removed in 1988 and not returned. Perhaps someone was researching it and may have lost interest, or died before returning the file.

For some reason, this whole story has really made me think. It's remarkably poignant, and shows the depth of human experience that can happen in war. I'd be very interested in learning more, if that could ever be possible.

Thank you,
Matt

_________________
Matt Austin - playing with warbirds since the early 80s.

See my Lee-Enfield videos at - http://www.youtube.com/user/Jollygreenslugg

Yeah--- so what?

If you object to the yearly submission of this thread, then refrain from posting on it.

I think it is important that we don't forget this man.

TonyM

_________________
.
.
.

"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

There was very little fuel on board when the AAF examined the plane. The BT-13 was fueled up and flown back to Marana.

This was a popular place to get lost to--twin engine students Tom Harmon and Bodie Fite got lost, ran out of fuel and performed a wheels up forced landing a short distance away more than a year earlier in September 1942 (Fite was washed out but Tom Harmon was allowed to go forward with his training). And another Cadet found his way to the same location under the same circumstances in 1945.

TM

_________________
.
.
.

"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

I think he might just be looking for confirmation that we're talking about the same event.

When you look at the Basic curriculum and what the experience level was, it's a wonder more cadets weren't lost like this.

The fate of the pilot is a mystery, but does anyone know what became of the airplane?

_________________
Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.

Did other students who crashed/landed nearby walkout or were they rescued after an air search located them?

_________________
Always looking for WW2 Half-Tracks and Parts.

Hi Tony,

Was it unusual for a case to be referred to Army Intelligence and the Federal Bureau of Investigation? Did this change the format of an incident report? I'd imagine that these reports would generally be fairly brief, but I'd be interested in seeing just how detailed they are.

I've done a little research (basic, via Mister Google) as to the use and appearance of the Form 1 and Form 1a. Would it be normal for the pilot to take this with him? These facts raise so many questions, all of which you and Chris have undoubtedly gone over in great detail. My Google searches based on the name and the airplane serial number have brought up your other pages and forum posts, all of which I've read.

I wonder what the general attitude of the locals was to the Army fliers. Your reports of other incidents would seem to suggest that inadvertent cross-border flights were rather common.

I'm sorry if I'm asking too much. I'm fascinated and saddened by the story.

*edit* For everyone here, this link shows the efforts that Tony, Chris and Dave have gone to to try and solve the mystery;
http://forum.armyairforces.com/Missing- ... 93352.aspx


Thank you,
Matt

_________________
Matt Austin - playing with warbirds since the early 80s.

See my Lee-Enfield videos at - http://www.youtube.com/user/Jollygreenslugg

Did anyone mapquest Marana to Rocky point? It is about 200 miles, or almost 2 hours by BT-13. Compared to about 1:45 or so direct Marana from Safford. One wonders at what point he realized he was lost? Heading Southwest as he was, he would have passed right by Tucson. Even in WW II Tucson was not small. Once past Tucson, there is pretty much nothing all the way to Rocky Pt. One wonders how he could just have kept going? At some point, he must have realized he was seriously lost, yet in order to make it that far, he could not have deviated much from course. He must have been throughly panicked by the time he landed. It would be completely dark by 1820, so remarkable he actually landed "safely". In November, it would be pretty cold at night, and who knows what a panicked cadet might do? I would say whoever wrote that write-up implying that it would be simple to walk 18 miles to Rocky Pt. ought to try it. Even in November, with no water and at night, and with the mentality that got him to that point, you are asking alot.

_________________
Rob C

Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. “

– Michael Crichton