Warbird Information Exchange

This is tangentially related to aircraft; the DUKW was found upright at a depth of 905 feet (!), and numerous items have been spotted near it, possibly the remains of the men who perished aboard the craft when it sank in a storm on April 30, 1945 while trying to cross Lake Garda.

Obviously we're well familiar with the P-47D "Dottie Mae", now under restoration out in Chino, but are there any other active searches in the lakes around Austria and Italy for other wartime aircraft? And what is the likelihood that there are actual remains at that depth- are these pure freshwater lakes?

And of course, the big question for the DUKW: Should it be raised along with her soldiers, if their remains are indeed still there? They all belonged to the 10th Mountain Division, should it be brought up as a memorial for that unit?

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/duck-boat-sunk-world-war-ii-found-italian-150911205.html

Lynn

Considering the good condition of Dottie May I'd be interested in seeing how the DUKW has held up.

In my opinion it would be best to leave it as a wargrave, especially if there are remains still aboard or near by. There are plenty of other DUKW's that could be restored as a tribute.

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Agree 100%, unless otherwise know for sure, most sunken vessels/vehicles are considered as war graves, submarines discovered are noted and usually listed as 'still on patrol' as tribute, single seat aircraft on the bottom with the canopy closed are not messed with. This is in 900+ feet of water, photograph it to bring closure then LEAVE IT ALONE!!!

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Bring it up.

http://www.hunley.org/

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/a ... /index.htm

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24242


An aircraft or a ship at the bottom serves no usefull purpose. Bring the artifact up, give the human remains to the family for burial.

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45-47=-2

I'd personally be in the bring it up crowd, but with the intention of making it a memorial/display, rather than a driver, and only if private funds were used. We don't need any more debt as a country.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Should it be raised? Depends on whether or not our government wants to bring up the remains of our troops!
The report says that it is intact sitting upright on the bottom, if nothing else bring the troops home!

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A&P/I.A., A.A.S./Aviation Maintenance technology
Warbird salvage/recovery
One day I'll get that P-40!

Forget the DUKW! Bring back those poor souls and give them their names back! Take them off the MIA list and let them rest.

It's too deep to dive, which means it's possible there are solid remains left. But I doubt they're all going to be in one piece, or even nearby. You can be sure the bodies floated around a bit before they settled. I'm thinking we should leave the thing where it is, and put up a memorial. I mean, what are we gonna do, dredge the lake? I like bringing them back if we can, but this would be a mess.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

I have to agree with Muddyboots. I say leave everything just the way it is, officially declare the site to be a war grave (and thus afford it some protection under the law), and put up a fitting memorial in a public place along the lakeshore to honor the men who rest there.

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

I bet you every lake or river in Europe has a plane in it, American, British or German. So many planes were lost...

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My racing will fund my warbirding. Hopefully...

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I am with the leave them rest where they are. My thoughts about this are based on the All or None factor. If we can bring them all home fine, if one is missing then one family would still not be complete. They served together, they died together, I think that they would want to all come home together, they will not want any of their buddies left behind.

Bring them home.

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

There is some history which might have some bearing on this discussion. From 1945-1950, the War Department and Department of Defense returned nearly 1/2 of all Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen who were KIA during the war. As part of the program, the family was given the choice of interment in country, in a suitable American Battle Monuments Commission Cemetery, return home to a Veteran's Cemetery, or return to the family plot with a payment of $50.00 towards funeral expenses. My uncle, Stephen Mendrey, stayed in Lorraine Cemetery and I know nothing about the decision or non-decision to leave him there. The only way I know about this program is that I own a 1942 Dodge WC54 Ambulance which has the following plate affixed to the dash:

"Overhauled 7-1947 Atlanta Ordnance Depot. Re-designated Truck, 3/4 Ton 4X4, Deceased Service Car."

I went looking for information on why the ambulance was converted. This truck was part of the massive movement (over 190,000 sets of remains) of US Army personnel for their families' personal preferences for disposition of their loved ones. And that is where I think this should be decided- in the homes and families of those who are directly involved. While it may be difficult to do that homework for this particular war grave, I do believe this precedent has been set and should be followed.

As for the vessel those men met their fate in, the DUKW, I look at it the same way I look at my WC54- it's better to have it running and maintained than sitting rusting on a plinth somewhere.

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

If there is evidence of remains, they should be the priority. Bring them home. If the DUKW can be recovered as part of that fine, but in the end it's the guys being brought home, not the machine that is the most important thing.

We owe that to them.

"Declaring" a site is a meaningless gesture. The only thing protecting that site is its depth, and even that will be eventually defeated if someone really wanted access.