Warbird Information Exchange

Excellent discussion, gentlemen!

I found the following to be an interesting read--maybe you will also.

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182909-1.html

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

I had a top overhaul done on a Continental R-670 that had been flown very seldom for the last ten years. I was very alarmed that the MX shop used Phillips 25W-60 straight away. I've always used mineral oil for engine break-ins, but they were very adamant that it was the right thing to do, according to Phillips, and from experience. Against my better judgement, I went along with their line of thinking. The rings took there seat very quickly, and 1 year and 100 hours later, compressions are great and oil usage is nil.

I'm near Chicago, so this poor motor is subjected to some pretty drastic temperature differences, so I am probably using the best oil for the duty. I agree with previous posts that if something is working, why change it. The best thing that we can do for our motors is to fly often and change the oil !

I came from the old school, to run in an engine you always used a straight weight mineral. oil. I found out many moons ago that just ain't always the case. I know we are getting a little off subject from the original thread here but this is getting interesting. If you have a big Lycoming, as in a Beech Duke, they call out for you to use an "AD" type oil for the run in. The line of thought (as I understand it is) to keep everything really clean from the get - go so as no problems later down the line with the turbo charger.They tend to have a carbon build up on the downstream side oil passage from the turbo. Also the Ing-ineers claim that everything else works better in harmony. Well I ain't real sure about all that but I recon it works. Now---for one yall ain't heard (Glenn W.) has, when My bro first got the Mustang "Old Boy", we were running Moblil 1 in the Merlin. Man everything was looking good, but then when we were doing air shows with multiple starts--engine hot--the starter clutch would slip! We started doing a mixture of a multigrade added in there and it started to work pretty well. I have always been a supporter for Mobil 1. I was one of the engine builders on the Voyager project when I worked for TCM. Mobil 1 is what we used, & worked great! The deal is that you have to do your homework and just figure whats best for your situation. I love a good multi-grade for about any application, but the syn. oils are not suited for every application. Thats just my 2 cents worth. By the way, I ain't looking for no fame about my Voyager deal. I guess thats just something that I can look back at, & say WOW! Guess that & a couple of bucks could get a beer in a cheap joint. You boys take care.
Robbie

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Fly Fast Make Noise!

Several years ago, we switched all of our aircraft to Phillips XC 25W60. The consumption and temps went down dramadically. However the radials leaked more than before. We switched the radials back to Aeroshell W120 and use Phillips XC in the inlines.

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Blue Skies,
Doug

www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com

Yup, the old skypig has IO360's

Reply & response to Eric Downing Dec 06/2005.
Re: High Oil Temperatures.
Eric ,
In response to your short article regarding high oil temperatures in the NA 64 Yale, During the restoration of my Yale 3413, I discovered when the Oil tank was dismantled,, an oil flow restricter that was installed in Canada during the war years.
The flow restricting ring was tack welded on the sump tube at the bottom ( internal) and was used to increase oil temperature for the winter training. Yale 3399 at the Canadian Harvard Association was running high oil temperatures, when a quiry was sent to me regarding high oil temperatures I forwarded the pictures showing how restricted the oil was in the oil tank. I suggested the use of a bore scope to determine if 3399 had the same collar installed, since then it was discovered that the Yale had the collar installed and they have removed it ,,,,,, it seems to be a bandage repair at best. The restriction certainly would raise oil temperatures in the Yale.Since I am new to WIX , I would like to post some pictures just trying to figure out the site, send on any help regarding posting pics, if you can,,, please search ANTIQUE AIRCRAFT RESTORATION & FINISHING LTD ON Facebook , you can see my passion.
Looking forward to your reply,
Cheers,

Just to pick a nit, "100 weight" oil would be like gear oil. I think you mean you're using an SAE 100 oil, which is 50 weight. The 40 weight you use in winter is SAE 80. Just curious tho, why mineral oil & not detergent in the O-2? Or should I just assume you're breaking in the engines?

I used to keep up a couple of Air Tractors with -1340s. We always used Aeroshell 60 wt in the summer & if any fertilizer work was to be done in winter, we switched to 50 wt. Now, that was 20 years ago but I can't see how a multigrade couldn't do anything but help all those bearings on start-up, especially on a cold morning. Of course, depending on how tight all the gaskets & seals are, the thinner oil is going to leak more just sitting there, but I also am aware that round motor gaskets & seals have come a long way these days, but round motors are still supposed to leak. On the 2 ATs I kept up tho, we had no probs but always let them warm up before throttling them up & I think even on a multigrade that needs to be followed.

Finding the correct oil at airports is a consideration I have not seen mentioned, maybe because it does not apply to the T-6.

I fly the majority of my hours away from home base (last trip was 42 hours) and often have a lot of gear along so carting more than a quart or two of extra oil around is not always an option. I find both Mineral oil and P66 Radial oil hard to find at most small airports. The Stearman's limited range causes a lot of fuel stops and I tend to land in random places without calling ahead. So, my solution is to run Aeroshell W100 AD oil in the W670 based on a limited sample set of it working well in other W670s. It is easy to find and I figure it is better to have oil vs. no oil...

i have found this thread facinating as to the different opinions i do not work in the aviation field but do work in the motorcycle racing field were rpms have sustained periods of 13000rpms and above and i can honestly say that beyond the break in period there is no other choice than the synthetics for protection of high stress moving mechanical parts! we experimented with 0 weight oils from our oil sponsor with dissasterous and expensive results but motorcycles don,t fall out of the sky when theyre engines fail

Politics and religion are less controversial subjects than both aircraft oils and use of mogas in airplanes. I have owned the same Twin Beech for 26 years. 25/60 has been in both engines before major overhauls and used as break-in oil after major overhauls. I like it.

Mogas wasn't the question, so I'll keep that opinion and that of the "community organizer" to my "ownself"!!

I did get a chuckle yesterday at Houston Ellington FBO. It was media day there for the upcoming Wings over Houston Airshow. I was flying one of LSFM's airplanes and CAF also had several there. One of the guys on "Texas Raider" crew walked up to the desk and told the young lady he needed oil for the B-17. She asked how much and what kind. He replied in gallons of 120. The next few exchanges and phone calls were comical to overhear. She had never heard the term "gallons" used in oil orders. The end result is they had no 120 and only only some quarts of the usual for little engines.

Bet this happens more than what is said. When I worked at a FBO here in Burlington, I tried many times for them to stock oil for radial engines. They still don't.

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

One difference is that oil for Aircraft gets into FAA and Gov specs as well as approvals for various types of engines. The engines have clearances in them that determine what oil gets used. The heavy viscosity oils are used for a reason.
There was a synthetic oil produced in the 80s that actually caused so much corrosion in engines it was pulled from the market.
The extra cost for synthetics is an issue when you have oil tanks in the teens and twentys of gallon capacity. Along with some radials using 1 - 3 qts or more an hour. Some even gals per hrs.
Many aircraft engines lack real good filtration that you have in auto and cycle engines. We rely on frequent oil changes to remove dirt and stuff the oil picks up. The additive in W oils isn't detergent. It basically acts to keep stuff that will settle as sludge suspended in the oil so that when it is drained it will remove the stuff with the oil. The Merlin we go 25 hrs between oil changes. That is roughly 15 gals of oil by draining the Tank, engine sump and oil cooler.
The top ends is where I've seen more corrosion on a Merlin with multi-grades then with the W120.

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Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

I have to agree with you on that Rich. The multi-vis seems to be like sex in a canoe (F*%&n near water) at room temp. It just doesn't seem to have the sticking power like straight weight.

So why is it most of the "Hot-water 12" guys like it so much (other than they have loads of cam sticks to sell) ?

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Expert:
Ex: Former.
Spurt: A drip under pressure.

Rich sez:
The top ends is where I've seen more corrosion on a Merlin with multi-grades then with the W120.
T-28mike sez:
So why is it most of the "Hot-water 12" guys like it so much (other than they have loads of cam sticks to sell) ?


I very much agree with Rich. The top end corrosion was very common when I used multigrade.
For Mike, I just do not know why they continue with the multigrade stuff. Heck, I can't even get them to paint their gear doors silver!! Dang!
VL