Warbird Information Exchange

I wonder how many attendees come to the event specifically to see warbirds. Personally I attended to see experimental and homebuilt aircraft. Any warbirds that attended were a bonus but they were not the reason I attended. If I want to see warbirds specifically there are some in this area and at local airshows from time to time.

My L 4 received a judges choice award for Liaison in 2010. This year I think I am going to hold out for 50 bucks, 2 hot dogs and a regular diet coke if they want me to attend. I have my standards. Besides it would cost me 40 gallons of fuel to get there!

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Flying Piper L4-J 45-55209

Congratulations on your 2010 award! I know that WARBIRDS are a big reason to make me attend a show like Oshkosh. The one show I have attended (2010) had more vintage jet warbirds than I have ever seen at any one other air show and I love classic vintage jets. There tend to be warbirds (or at least this has often been the case in the past) that you just don't see at many other air shows. One example is Rich Sugden's FJ-4B Fury vintage jet that makes most Oshkosh shows, but otherwise is VERY rarely seen east of the Mississippi. I love vintage propliners too, and the gathering of DC-3's and the restored DC-7B were also big reasons I went that year.

I have little interest in homebuilts, experimental aircraft or light aircraft like Piper Cubs, etc. but I know that these are a big part of EAA AirVenture. If a lot of warbirds, vintage propliner/airliners, big current aircraft like the A380, Super Guppy, AN-124/225, 747 Dreamlifter, other new airliners, etc. are being featured at a future Oshkosh I will try hard to attend if I can.

Russ, I would have to guess, although I agree with your and Glyn2's posts, that the number who go to OSH for the warbirds is large and growing.

Just look at how EAA promotes the event on its website in the months leading up to the convention, like having Red Tail on the poster and many of the promo releases relating to warbirds. Look at the planes that get picked to be in the central square. Compare the frequency that warbirds appear vs. homebuilts and antiques in the Airventure photo galleries and banner ads.

It didn't used to be that way.

The old fashioned homebuilders, meaning the real garage DIY guys, and the general aviation enthusiasts are aging and dying off, and maybe learning or buying what they used to get from OSH through the internet. You can't help but be struck by how gray the remaining part of that part of the crowd is now.

I suspect EAA has concluded that a lot of the reason anyone under without an AARP card will keep coming is the warbirds, and I can't say they're wrong. Which is what makes this conversation worth having.

August

I think Oshkosh is really about the LOVE of airplanes. And love is about giving, not so much about receiving. Though it's true that it seems the more you give, the more you will receive. People are there because they love seeing airplanes, flying their airplanes, working on their airplanes, building their airplanes, talking with other airplane lovers and fliers and fixers and builders and historians about airplanes.

Mr. Yagen is free to do what he wants. The airplane lovefest at Oshkosh will go on without him.

--Tom

I'm going to comment though I know that typically my posts go UN-noticed, but I am personally a huge fan of Jerry and his collection. It is incredibly expensive to operate his massive fleet of aircraft. 90% or better of the collection is kept airworthy and is flown regularly. There is also more projects for him in the pipeline, that I know myself and others on this forum have asked about. The p-39/63's come to mind. And Like Ed mentioned, the Mossy is getting tons of fan fair all over the world and has been invited to attend many shows this year or I would venture to think. And Jerry has sent aircraft to Osh before, he and the AVSPECS crew already have two trophy's that i can think of right off hand. His P-40 and his Dragon Rapide. I just hope that we on this forum don't think negatively of any of the owners of our beloved Warbirds for asking for a little help on the gas bill. Because after all the owners can choose to keep these aircraft tucked away in private hangers hidden from the public eye. So for me i just hope we can remain respectful here of any of the owners choices. And be thankful that we do have the opportunity to enjoy these Aircraft along with their owners. I know I am, I am member Of MAM and go very regularly to see whats going on.

Travis.

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First thing I thought of Jerry
Also the only Mossie I've seen fly, Yet!

Gerry Yagen is a high class gentleman. He knows that lots of folks are interested in seeing KA114. May she fly for many years, and maybe someday OSH will be a destination.

Andy Scott

I have always found it interesting that the EAA grounded all their warbirds (except the B-17), but then expect warbird owners to bring theirs to Airventure for no compensation. Some will continue to do so, because let's face it, it is a blast to be there with your warbird, but it can be a hassle too. I remember one year we took the B-25 up there three days early. We had our vehicle out there unloading all our junk when the volunteer security guy threatened us if we didn't move the vehicle immediately. (Remember the show didn't start for three more days and there were like five airplanes in the WB area). An EAA Director was standing beside his car on the other side of the airplane. Oddly they didn't say anything to him. That is the kind of stuff that will drive guys away from OSH. Guys like Rick Siegfried (immediate past Pres of WofA) have done a great job of trying to make it a great event for owners and volunteers but they don't have autonomous rule of even their area.

Jerry used to come to OSH all the time..maybe he had a similar incident, maybe not. Maybe he just got burnt out on OSH. It happens. I would love for him to bring the Mosquito since it is my son's favorite airplane...but if he doesn't it will just be an excuse for a father-son road/air trip to some airshow where it will be.

I thought Warbirds of America provided some freebies for attending the show and EAA bought fuel if you flew in one of the shows?

I know that doesn't cover the expenses, but heck, it is THE aviation event in the US. If you're an airplane person, don't you want to be there, regardless of whether there is money in it for you?

I'm not picking on you or any other warbird owner/operator, but do people really need to get paid to participate in their hobby or passion?

I was simply commenting on the irony that they grounded their airplanes because of cost but have no problem expecting free participation from others. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have personally spent countless dollars taking warbirds to OSH (not to mention housing, rental cars etc). I haven't missed a year since 1985. I will be back this year. But, I have to admit at times I have questioned whether I will attend a given year because of cost, but I always end up going. I have also noticed more and more of my friends coming to OSH, but leaving the warbird at home. Especially those from far away. $6.00 gas is having its impact. I did that for a few years, and will be doing it again this year as I am selling my last warbird and am not sure what is next. But at the end of the day, come the end of July, I will be there..as always...and at least one night we will all sit around and complain about how expensive it is and how EAA is unreasonable etc, but we will all be back in one way or another

If you come by Homebuilt Camping, which isn't too far from Warbirds, there's a free beer in it for you and we can also bitch about how it was better in the old days...

I think Airventure is a great airshow. I won't fly there again and arrive during the show- many reasons. I'd get there early and stay late, but that would take some pretty difficult logistics on my family's part and so it probably won't happen. That said, I have mixed feelings about bringing aircraft to the show for pay. I don't blame an owner for not showing up unless getting paid. I also respect those who spend all the time and effort to get their aircraft to the show. I do believe there should be some organized effort on the part of show producers to get premiums/giveaways/gift bags to those who attend. I didn't see that, although I did attend a barbecue sponsored by somebody who supported warbirds and got an EAA Warbirds flight bag from AVEMCO (I wish I remembered who sponsored that barbecue, but the Fox River Brewing Company Buzzin' Honey Ale wiped it from my memory). And that's how I view the way to move forward to getting paid to attend the show; the show is there, with definable attendance and demographic numbers easily demonstrated to a potential sponsor. If you want to go to the show and get paid, get a sponsor, and go. Otherwise, don't go. If you want to change how the show works, join EAA and start politicking.

Aside from that, I don't believe it is a good idea to air issues like this on Avweb and the EAA takes the hit on this one. At any airshow, It's a private contract between an owner and a show producer for a warbird to show up. There's not a line of hungry warbird owners lined up waiting to speak with reporters to tell how THEY didn't get invited or paid to show up at any other airshow. Those who own warbirds all basically know that nobody gets paid for appearances to KOSH unless they have a private sponsor. What point did the EAA President have in taking what was a private issue, commenting on it, and turning it into a public issue?

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

I just looked up the EAA Airventure website. The price through the gates for an adult non-EAA member is US$41, or US$26 per member. Weekly rates for adult members is $114. Children aged 6 to 18 are charged US$22 for non-members, $18 for members or a week rate of $60.

With the figure of 500,000 people through the gate through the weklong event, as their site says, then they must be taking well in excess of US$10 million just from the gate takings.

Add to the all the money they must make from vendors buying space, landing fees, and the rest, the airshow must be absolutely creaming it.

Where does all that money go to?

I don't really have any opinion as I see both sides of this story, but surely it might be prudent for the organisers to consider filtering a small percentage of the money they take in towards their headlining acts that are there to draw in all the people? I have always thought EAA's main purpose was to promote aviation to people, surely they'll inspire more kids towards aviation through the likes of Mosquitoes and other top warbirds than through homebuilds and aerobatic bugsplats?

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If they are participating as part of the scheduled air display, then probably yes. An airshow provides entertainment to thousands of people who have shown up and paid to be entertained.

Do you expect to go to a concert where the promoters are charging $80 a ticket and the band isn't getting paid? Do you think footballers, baseballers, golfers, cricket players, basketballers and all the other sports that have developed into mass entertainment love what they're doing so much that they're happy to pay their own expences and not pick up a cheque afterwards?

I think owners of expensive, rare aircraft should be paid, and so should the display pilots. Both are risking a lot, especially at an airshow like Oshkosh where anything bad can happen and does regularly.

Surely a little percentage of the gate takings could easily pay the costs of the top acts?

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However the EAA would take a much bigger hit from the public if both parties kept quiet about the disagreement and the public was left thinking that the biggest warbird act in the world right now would be there, and it wasn't.

At least now a lot of people who were planning to attend from Britain, Europe, Canada and other parts of the world specifically to see it now have warning that it won't be there, and can change their plans (to attend the Hamilton Airshow in Canada).

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Ok I noticed it. Just curious since you are a member over there. I fly out of Suffolk and see some of their planes operate out of there and I know they still have some of their planes at Suffolk. I fly over his airport in VB often in the L 4 since I use his water tower as a landmark to stay out of Oceana airspace. I sometimes see a few cars there and a couple times the hangar doors were open and Chuckie was in the grass but I was curious is it open to the public at all ? I know it was last May for a couple days but the weather was not good. Is that the only time he shows the aircraft? I have always wondered what might be over there.

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Flying Piper L4-J 45-55209