A Lake Michigan recovery now w/ even more photos

[airmanual]

Goog day,

question: should we understand that this wilcat recovered is:
1. the best one of what is left at the bottom of lake Michigan (would not augur too well for future recoveries)
2. the one that was the easiest to recover
3. the one the Navy agreed to be recovered

Laurent

[tulsaboy]

marine air-

I don't think that we need additional justification for recovery- I think that historic preservation is justification enough! I also think that the market indicates that there would be a significant number of museums and individuals who would happily buy project wildcats, dauntlesses etc. The only stumbling block is the Navy. And to their credit, they have been much more aggressive about recovering these aircraft lately. Kudos to them for their efforts; without those efforts, we wouldn't have many of the historic Navy aircraft that are in museums today. I think, though, at this point the Navy has probably recovered all of the Wildcats and SBDs that it needs. The NMUSAF would not spend any resources recovering a B-17G or a P-51 unless it was a particular airplane with a particular history that absolutely needed to be recovered. I think that the NMNA should now be at the point where it can acknowledge that in terms of Wildcats, SBDs, TBMs and SNJs, the museum has all it needs and should focus its resources on recovery of more rare types like the TBD. That being said, in the interest of promoting Navy history, I don't understand why they wouldn't be willing to allow private groups to start immediate recovery of the remaining Great Lakes aircraft if for no other reason than they will soon be beyond reasonable recovery.

The NMNA has done great work in the last 5 years in terms of targeting and recovering (and even restoring) combat veteran aircraft that we would not have in museums today unless they had been willing to reconsider their position on the submerged aircraft. I applaud their efforts, but think that we should all encourage them to allow a triage recovery of the remaining aircraft from Lake Michigan in the next decade to preserve those aircraft for future generations.

kevin

[bdk]

I think the question is why was this particular aircraft recovered rather than another?

[Warbird Kid]

and the only Vindicator has also been recovered back in 1990.

So there weren't two Vindicators? Just one?

[cooper9411]

Here it is: Dear friends,

I wanted to let you know about a new petition I created on We the People,
a new feature on WhiteHouse.gov, and ask for your support. Will you add your
name to mine? If this petition gets 25,000 signatures by December 16, 2012,
the White House will review it and respond!

We the People allows anyone to create and sign petitions asking the Obama
Administration to take action on a range of issues. If a petition gets
enough support, the Obama Administration will issue an official response.

You can view and sign the petition here:

http://wh.gov/X9Dn

Here's some more information about this petition:

change the navy's stance on abandoned aicraft
wrecks
The U.S. Navy has no interest in wrecked naval, Marine Corps aircraft
until a private citizen spends their own money to locate the wreck and
attempt to salvage. Only then does the navy want to step in and say
"they" still hold title and ownership to the aircraft. If the crew
is listed as missing and/or remains are found then by all means let the
aircraft remain where at, but if the crew was rescued/recovered then why not
the private citizen salvage the aircraft? The navy has plenty examples of the
types they have operated over the years in museums and when it will benefit
the navy they allow recoveries of aircraft ( Lake Michigan) or make
arrangements with other countries.



Let get signing!

[Warbird Kid]

I don't want to be considered the "bubble breaker" but I don't even think there are even 25,000 aviation fans out there! But I've been wrong before. That being said, I would love to see this go over the required number but highly doubt it, given that were five days away from the deadline.

BUT if we were to:

1. Address the other airplane / history / modeling forums with a simple post for a "call to arms".

2. Post something on your Facebook wall, linking the petition page with a bit of text at the top saying "Do you care about saving history? Sign here and preserve it!" or something like that. The thing you need to know is to keep it simple, short, and to the point for these "great unwashed Facebook masses". (Me being one of them of course.)

3. Send out personal emails to those who sympathize with this issue but may not be connected through forums or Facebook.

We MAY have a chance. Believe me theres nothing more I'd like to see than twenty recoveries a year. Imagine...

[Pat Carry]

and the only Vindicator has also been recovered back in 1990.

So there weren't two Vindicators? Just one?

Taras told me there are no more Vindicators to be recovered.

[Dan K]

So, who's up for a field trip?

http://www.eaa.org/news/2012/2012-12-12 ... ildcat.asp

[Warbirdnerd]

Lifted from the latest EAA e newsletter:

Panel Discusses Warbird Recoveries
Chicago's Pritzker Military Library recently hosted a panel discussion about the location and recovery of warbirds from Lake Michigan that had crashed during carrier training operations during World War II. Moderator Bob Rasmussen, director of the National Naval Aviation Museum, was joined by Taras Lyssenko, general manager, A&T Recovery; Capt. Ed Ellis, secretary of the Naval Aviation Museum Foundation; and Bill Marquardt, president of Glenview Hangar One Foundation. An edited 30-minute version of this program, including actual footage of the recent recovery of a Grumman FM-2 Wildcat, will air on Chicago PBS station WTTW on February 24, but the Pritzker website has posted the full 90-minute program online

The video can be viewed here:
http://www.pritzkermilitarylibrary.org/ ... riers.aspx

[marine air]

It would be an awesome idea for the EAA (with donors) sponsor the raising of a Dauntless and Wildcat that would ultimately be displayed in their museum. The raising of it could coincide with the convention and it could be pulled up put on a truck and arrive during the convention.
They have several dozen workshops, each convention that build up and teach all methods of aircraft construction. Who wouldn't want to do fabric work on a Dauntless' control surfaces? The EAA raised money to build the warbird hangar by selling 1,000 numbered leather jackets (mine is #63) twenty years ago.
The aircraft will need a lot of work. The first convention could be to retrieve, clean, and prepare for storage. the second year could be the actual restorative work. They might have it completed by the end of the second or certainly third convention. (24 calendar months.) It won't be a flyer, so it doesn't have to have the inspections, etc.

[Dan K]

It would be an awesome idea for the EAA (with donors) sponsor the raising of a Dauntless and Wildcat that would ultimately be displayed in their museum. The raising of it could coincide with the convention and it could be pulled up put on a truck and arrive during the convention.
They have several dozen workshops, each convention that build up and teach all methods of aircraft construction. Who wouldn't want to do fabric work on a Dauntless' control surfaces? The EAA raised money to build the warbird hangar by selling 1,000 numbered leather jackets (mine is #63) twenty years ago.
The aircraft will need a lot of work. The first convention could be to retrieve, clean, and prepare for storage. the second year could be the actual restorative work. They might have it completed by the end of the second or certainly third convention. (24 calendar months.) It won't be a flyer, so it doesn't have to have the inspections, etc.

That's actually quite a clever plan.


The only problem I see is when those 1000 volunteers sign up to work on the same elevator.