Warbird Information Exchange

Right but remember the ship started to fire on the plane so the first photo could be the plane after a few rounds thus no outboard engine at that time the photo was taken. As for the top of the wing I still believe the sun angle is causing the difference in the shading. Again look closely to the first photo and you can just barely make out the wing #'s. Ailerons look to be the same pitch in all the photos as well. And the last thing is I'm almost convinced the first photo reads NC18601 on the tail.

Anyway it's probably just my poor eyes (and imagination) working overtime on this one.

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Zero Surprise!!...

All of the photos depict the Honolulu Clipper.

The first image should probably have been posted last in the sequence as it depicts a near second accidental contact with the San Pablo as well as the damage sustained by the plane as a result of the first collision (the engine was knocked off, not shot off). The unweildy tow is what ultimately prompted the Clipper to be deemed a hazard to naigation and sunk by gunfire. Plus as Mark points out, the registration NC 18601 is still legible on the vertical tail.

I also agree with Mark's supposition that the black anti-glare paint on (the inboard side of) the inboard engines is what gives them their "smoked" appearance and contibutes to the confusion .. as well as the conclusion that the sun angle in the second photo is what makes it appear that there are no numbers on the upper surfaces of the wing.

The Bermuda Sky Queen (ex-Capetown Clipper), forced down in the Atlantic in October of 1947 would be the only other possible candidate. But, in that case, rescue was effected by the US Coast Guard cutter Bibb, which appears in all of the photos and newsreels of the time sporting the USCG's standard peacetime all over white paint scheme. The ship in the above pictures is definitnely the San Pablo in Navy gray.

As for "bringing up a spaghetti strainer from 18,000 feet" .. the point would be to save the first example of an historic and iconic aircraft that fills a gaping hole in our preserved record of the development of air transportation, one of the most revolutionary steps forward in human memory. Even if the remains bear an uncomfortable resemblance to a collander, there really are no other options. Of course, the daunting realities of locating, lifting, and preserving 25 tons of corroded and bullet-riddled metal from the remote and crushing depths of the mid-Pacific Ocean is another matter .. but, I definitely understand the point of the dream.

First, I would like to second this question. (If that makes any sense. )

Second, I like this bit from the article instead:

Yea. You go ahead and spend millions of dollars to recover the airframe and keep it for yourself. I on the other hand will wait until you do so, and then call the Navy. We'll see who ends up with the airframe.

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Tri-State Warbird Museum Collections Manager & Museum Attendant

Warbird Philosophy Webmaster

I'll stick with two different planes (or paint jobs at different dates?)

The 1st pick clearly shows the large black walkway stripe with no numbers.

The 4th pic from roughly the same angle does not show the black walkway stripe and does show the numbers where the stripe would go thru.

Maybe you are playing and maybe you aren't. I'll assume that you are. But if you aren't, just do what you say you will do and then wait and see how long you are welcome around anybody else that likes warbirds.

Things like that will get you kicked out of here.

Wixmod Charlie

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I'm Batman

Whoa. Sorry. Just kidding. I didn't realize that would be taken so seriously or so offensively. I apologize to the both of you and anyone else I may have angered. I'm surprised saying things like that constitutes a bannable offense. I originally made the joke only because the text I cited seemed a bit selfish and hostile toward anyone being able to view it once it was raised. I didn't actually put any credence toward the French effort I was referencing. I would never do that to anyone planning on raising a bird. Especially not to any of the other efforts raising the Clipper. Once again, I apologize, sorry.

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Tri-State Warbird Museum Collections Manager & Museum Attendant

Warbird Philosophy Webmaster

I had no idea that a bike could be pedaled backwards so hard.

AND, it was a commercial airliner owned by a now DEFUNCT airline, NOT A BRANCH OF ANY SERVICE (other than when impressed into war service during WW2).

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

But seriously, if the Navy did get wind of this through their own means, couldn't you imagine them saying, "Hey, thanks for pulling our airplane out of the drink, we'll take her from here..."?

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

In the name of God, don't mention this to TIGHAR...it would keep them going for years.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

They would spend millions searching the aera AROUND the plane, looking for the plane.

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My racing will fund my warbirding. Hopefully...

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/#!/ChristopherDeshongRacing
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And a tidbit from a lurker on the board.

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-Bill
B-17E 41-2595 "Desert Rat" Restoration Team

hey!!!dry martini!!!! that's 2 ultra rare / holy grail data plates from this mystery lurker!! what gives?? how did he get those??

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

More likely two different cameras used to photograph the same plane. IIRC there were at least two different black and white photographic processes, or film types, or whatever. This is why some old photos show reds and yellows as being extremely light (almost white) and some show those colours as very dark (nearly black).


I don't think that stripe on top of the wing was a black walkway. Someone more versed in Clippers could confirm but I think it was bright orange. If that's the case it's not a stretch for the upper markings on the wing to look black in some pics and much lighter in others.

-Tim

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Keep 'em Flying.