Normandy Invasion resources? C-47s

[Aad]

The museum I belong to is acquiring a C-47 that was manufactured in 1943. I am trying to find out info on it, but I can only find info from when it was used by the state of Florida for Mosquito spraying.

The aircraft is N836M with serial number 43-48716. I have a picture of a dataplate which says it was a VC-47D, which would mean it was a VIP aircraft, but the plate is not original and was etched by hand. I have not been in the plane yet to see if I can find anything inside. So really, I’m just curious if this plane made the Normandy flight or not. Is there any public database of planes that flew or would we have to contact the air force museum to try and find this info?

Tyler, here's some further info on your museum's aircraft:

C-47B 43-48716 1 TC Bear 806 BU 13Sep44 - ATC Dow 1379 BU 23Sep44 - 8 AF Europe 27Sep44 - 9 AF 75 TCS by Dec44 - Hunter 302 BU 04Jul45 - ATS San Bernardino 4126 BU 08Jul45 - ATC Mitchel 1102 BU 10Feb47 - Ireland MID 10Feb47 - HQC Dublin 1134 SAS 25Oct48 - 1130 SAG 12Dec49 - HQO Belgrade 1130 SAG 13Feb50 - Converted to VC-47B 14Apr50 - Converted to VC-47D 30Apr50 - AFE Tempelhof 7350 SS 11Sep59 - HQO Belgrade 1127 FAG 20Oct59 - AFE Athens 7206 SG 14Jan65 - 1127 FAG 20Feb65 - Belgrade 1127 FAG 21May65 - Belgrade Attache 01Sep65 - HQC Andrews 1001 CW 10Sep68 - 1 CW 01Jul69 - Transferred to US Army 27Apr72 - Transferred to Davis-Monthan MASDC 19Nov74 for storage (inventory code ZB016) - Transferred to United States Department of Health, Ft. Myers, FL 19Jun75 - Registered to Monroe County Mosquito Control District (MCMCD), Ft. Meyers, FL as N836M 28Jul75 - Converted to sprayer - Still operational as such by March 2011, based at Lehigh Acres, FL.
Most of this taken from "DC-1/DC-2/DC-3 - The First Seventy Years" by J.M. Gradidge (2006) and "MASDC - Davis-Monthan AFB" by P. Blanchard, P. Chinnery and M. Swann (1983).

This shows that your aircraft is too new to have participated in the D-Day or Market Garden operations (delivered 13Sep44 and arrived in Europe 27Sep44), but in my country (Holland) the war raged on for another several months until May45, so it may have been involved in some other major operation during that time.

I note from FAA records that N836M was sold to the Vietnam Huey Pilots Association, Beaver Falls, PA on 28 Dec 2012. I assume they are closely related to your museum Air Heritage Inc. (as they are on the same address)?

[patelie]

716 flew Varsity with the 75th TCS
aircrew:
Capt. Edward W. Frome
2nd Lt. Jesse T. Slusher
S/Sgt. Harold E. Harris
T/Sgt. Dennis T. O'Connor

[WallyB]

Yes, and they are right. It is a zero, and not the letter "O".
It's all explained in detail here (including copies of original USAF documents):
http://www.oldwings.nl/content/o0/not_oh.htm

OK, I switch camps . But calling it (the zero) a "symbol" rather than a digit/number contributed to the uncertainty.

[flightsimer]

The museum I belong to is acquiring a C-47 that was manufactured in 1943. I am trying to find out info on it, but I can only find info from when it was used by the state of Florida for Mosquito spraying.

The aircraft is N836M with serial number 43-48716. I have a picture of a dataplate which says it was a VC-47D, which would mean it was a VIP aircraft, but the plate is not original and was etched by hand. I have not been in the plane yet to see if I can find anything inside. So really, I’m just curious if this plane made the Normandy flight or not. Is there any public database of planes that flew or would we have to contact the air force museum to try and find this info?

Tyler, here's some further info on your museum's aircraft:

C-47B 43-48716 1 TC Bear 806 BU 13Sep44 - ATC Dow 1379 BU 23Sep44 - 8 AF Europe 27Sep44 - 9 AF 75 TCS by Dec44 - Hunter 302 BU 04Jul45 - ATS San Bernardino 4126 BU 08Jul45 - ATC Mitchel 1102 BU 10Feb47 - Ireland MID 10Feb47 - HQC Dublin 1134 SAS 25Oct48 - 1130 SAG 12Dec49 - HQO Belgrade 1130 SAG 13Feb50 - Converted to VC-47B 14Apr50 - Converted to VC-47D 30Apr50 - AFE Tempelhof 7350 SS 11Sep59 - HQO Belgrade 1127 FAG 20Oct59 - AFE Athens 7206 SG 14Jan65 - 1127 FAG 20Feb65 - Belgrade 1127 FAG 21May65 - Belgrade Attache 01Sep65 - HQC Andrews 1001 CW 10Sep68 - 1 CW 01Jul69 - Transferred to US Army 27Apr72 - Transferred to Davis-Monthan MASDC 19Nov74 for storage (inventory code ZB016) - Transferred to United States Department of Health, Ft. Myers, FL 19Jun75 - Registered to Monroe County Mosquito Control District (MCMCD), Ft. Meyers, FL as N836M 28Jul75 - Converted to sprayer - Still operational as such by March 2011, based at Lehigh Acres, FL.
Most of this taken from "DC-1/DC-2/DC-3 - The First Seventy Years" by J.M. Gradidge (2006) and "MASDC - Davis-Monthan AFB" by P. Blanchard, P. Chinnery and M. Swann (1983).

This shows that your aircraft is too new to have participated in the D-Day or Market Garden operations (delivered 13Sep44 and arrived in Europe 27Sep44), but in my country (Holland) the war raged on for another several months until May45, so it may have been involved in some other major operation during that time.

I note from FAA records that N836M was sold to the Vietnam Huey Pilots Association, Beaver Falls, PA on 28 Dec 2012. I assume they are closely related to your museum Air Heritage Inc. (as they are on the same address)?

Thanks for the info.

The Huey pilots Association is seperate from our museum, however, the president and founder of it is a member and they have their mailbox within our location because their hangar is within the gated part of the airport.

They are the actual owners of the plane for now and recieved it through trading huey parts for it. We are going to "trade" planes with them, though it will actually be a sale, so Air Heritage will become the official owners in the near future.

Right now, the tender is for us to recieve the C-47 by trading him our OV-1D Mohawk. The Mohawk is not flyable as it is now, it needs rewired, but still runs well and could become flyable with a little money. The last time we flew it was in the 2009 airshow season, however, we have been maintaining it still. He will be selling it to someone else who owns other OV-1's across the country and it will remain on our ramp for the rest of its future with this owner.

[Pathfinder]

Patrick--

The name Frome is familiar to me....was he the co-pilot on our friend Carl Beck's Normandy plane? ...or on "IRON ASS"?

[patelie]

Waoohh Dave.. Excellent Memory
1st Lt. Edward W. Frome was the pilot of Chalk #35

[flightsimer]

C-47B 43-48716 1 TC Bear 806 BU 13Sep44 -
ATC Dow 1379 BU 23Sep44 -
8 AF Europe 27Sep44 - as far I know or have found the 8th AF didn't have any TRoop carrier groups.
9 AF 75 TCS by Dec44 - Researched and found it was in the 435th troop carrier group, 75th squad. Looks like this plane more than likely took place in operation Varsity, which was the crossing of the Rhine. It would have carried troops and towed two gliders on that sorty.
Hunter 302 BU 04Jul45 -
ATS San Bernardino 4126 BU 08Jul45 -
ATC Mitchel 1102 BU 10Feb47 -
Ireland MID 10Feb47 -
HQC Dublin 1134 SAS 25Oct48 -
1130 SAG 12Dec49 -
HQO Belgrade 1130 SAG 13Feb50 -
Converted to VC-47B 14Apr50 - Understand
Converted to VC-47D 30Apr50 - understand
AFE Tempelhof 7350 SS 11Sep59 -
HQO Belgrade 1127 FAG 20Oct59 -
AFE Athens 7206 SG 14Jan65 -
1127 FAG 20Feb65 -
Belgrade 1127 FAG 21May65 -
Belgrade Attache 01Sep65 -
HQC Andrews 1001 CW 10Sep68 -
1 CW 01Jul69 -
Transferred to US Army 27Apr72 -
Transferred to Davis-Monthan MASDC 19Nov74 for storage (inventory code ZB016) -

could someone fill me in on the things I don't understand or haven't been able to decode?

[flightsimer]

So I have been researching the involvement this aircraft may have had with the 9th AF. Reading between the lines, it appears this plane has a very rich combat history even though it was a short one.

It would have been a part of the 53rd troop carrier wing, 435th troop carrier group and the 75th troop squadron. It would have worn the squad code of CK.

Upon arriving with the 9th AF at Welford Park, England, it was more than likely used on up to four resupply missions during the battle of the bulge between December 23 and December 27. I believe it's safe to say it took part in these operations due to a sister bird off the line, 43-48718, was lost on the 26th.

Right now I'm not sure what happened with the 435th between JAN 45 and March 45. But it would have flown in operation Varsity towing 2 CG-4 gliders and a full load of paratroopers on March 24th. After the 24, it would have been flying support missions bringing in supplies. After the war it says the 75th was used to help transport POWs out.

[patelie]

Hello

716 took part on two resupply missions during the battle of the bulge
- 24th december with Bussman, Mack, Bell and Austin
- 26th December with Frome, Slusher, O'Connor and Soltess

But it would have flown in operation Varsity towing 2 CG-4 gliders and a full load of paratroopers on March 24th

It was only a double glider tow. No 'full load of paratroopers' aboard the planes.

[flightsimer]

Hello

716 took part on two resupply missions during the battle of the bulge
- 24th december with Bussman, Mack, Bell and Austin
- 26th December with Frome, Slusher, O'Connor and Soltess

But it would have flown in operation Varsity towing 2 CG-4 gliders and a full load of paratroopers on March 24th

It was only a double glider tow. No 'full load of paratroopers' aboard the planes.

Sweet! Thanks for the info. Any source for this though? Not doubting it, just was curious for the future for any display we make or when we do the aircraft page for the website. Also might be able to help me further track its history down.

After posted and reread what i was readin that had the info, I realized that it was saying the the troop load was referencing what was in the gliders, not the plane. lol

[flightsimer]

716 flew Varsity with the 75th TCS
aircrew:
Capt. Edward W. Frome
2nd Lt. Jesse T. Slusher
S/Sgt. Harold E. Harris
T/Sgt. Dennis T. O'Connor

Any info on these crew members? Since it seems like people know of at least Frome, I did a search but couldn't find anything.

Think it would be cool to be able to restore it just they flew it back in 45.

[patelie]

Sweet! Thanks for the info. Any source for this though?

Yes, War diary of the 75th TCS!

[Pathfinder]

There is a VERY outside chance that Capt. Frome may still be with us. I found a listing for the name in AZ age 95. A discrepancy in the listings indicated a person with middle initial 'D' as well as middle name 'Wilson' living at the same address.

More: Edward Wilson Frome is listed at the NWW2 Memorial as a pilot in 435 TCG....honored by his daughter. There is a listing for a person with her name and a likely age relatively near to the other AZ listing.....hmmmmmmm....but there are also about a dozen other names that fall within the age bracket that could be considered so she is not a conclusive contact.

Sorry for the long link...but check this out....apparently Frome's nickname was "Elmo"....not clear who the other crew in the photo are except that Frome is identified.

http://books.google.com/books?id=WysOCH ... 22&f=false

[flightsimer]

Sweet! Thanks for the info. Any source for this though?

Yes, War diary of the 75th TCS!

And this diary, is it a book or??? Did a search didn't find anything with this title.

[patelie]

No, the war diary is on a microfilm roll I bought at Maxwell AFB.
Ref. A0990