Bad news from Aviation Museum

[Cherrybomber13]

There is a nice museum in Connecticut, just of I-95 that would love a B-17 and would take very good care of it. Sadly they have an all volunteer staff so the NMUSAF doesn't acknowledge them or the work they can perform or their massive indoor hangar... just sayin...

[mustangdriver]

It's not just a NMUSAF rule. Most national collections require you to have at least one full time employee.

[mjanovec]

Interesting approach to running a museum...

They decide they can't take good enough care of the aircraft already in their possession, so they decide to destroy (some of) them instead.

And then they argue that they deserve a B-17?

[mrhenniger]

Interesting approach to running a museum...
They decide they can't take good enough care of the aircraft already in their possession, so they decide to destroy (some of) them instead.

The museum does not "OWN" most of the aircraft since most of them are on loan from the NMUSAF Loan Program. The museum likely just asked to return a number of airframes and so the NMUSAF reassigned some airframes and moved some others to storage at DM in Tucson. I assume the NMUSAF decided others too big to be moved were to be scrapped on site. We can lament the loss of these airframes, but if it wasn't for museums like the Aviation Museum, the airframes would likely have been stored at DM and eventually scrapped with very few members of the public being able to set eyes on them. At least the museum was able to display them for some period of time.



I have been following this thread with interest. I hope you don't mind, but here is a bit of a Canadian perspective. In Canada we have some well respected flying collections like the CWH and Vintage Wings, but the real gems are the aircraft collections like the Canada Air and Space Museum at Rockcliffe (national collection) and privately run collections like at Nanton. Don't forget about Shearwater, and the so many more smaller collections that deserve a mention (Lancaster restoration in Windsor that deserves a mention). No matter how impressed I have been with the effort to preserve aircraft in Canada, it pales to the collections, at least in quantity, in the United States. The Smithsonian, Dayton, Pensacola, Tucson, Seattle, Virginia Beach, Mr. Weeks, etc. etc. etc. And this doesn't even begin to address the large number of smaller collections around the United States. I will admit it is a shame to see airframes scrapped but I think we all could use a big does of reality... an airframe is HUGE artifact. Most can't be kept inside, and displaying outside eventually means beer cans. You guys south of the border really need to count your blessings. You have so many fantastic collections indoors well preserved you really don't have that much to complain about. It is not possible to save them all, they are just too big. I see your budget reductions similar to what Canada has been dealing with for many years, so many year now it is just plain reality, a normal. Don't forget to count your blessings in what you already have and don't get hung up on the inevitable losses.

I hope I haven't offended anyone by saying this. Like I said, it is just a different perspective.

Mike

[Mark Allen M]

Mr. Mike Henniger well said and nicely done. Reality checks are usually quite difficult for many to grasp. There's a certain Aircraft Carrier in Alameda, CA that I have been supporting for years which I'll admit is an exercise in futility, but it brings me some satisfaction in knowing I've tried my best with my small part. Nothing last forever and old boats and old airplanes are certainly high on the lists of finite life span. I'm all for delaying the inevitable but even old airplanes can tell when it's time is done. I give credit to ALL museums of all types, which in this day and age, still find the money, time, effort and passion to at least try to do an admirable job in preserving old items. Some Museums do better than others, but until you have really got down and dirty with one of these immensely complicated and expensive endeavors there is no way to properly give an assessment of what a Museum is doing wrong or right.

If we could somehow channel the energy it takes to create sarcasm and complaints and take that energy, turn it around, and use it to develop solutions, what a concept that would be, and one can only wonder in amazement how little time there would be to devote to negative banter and marvel at the wealth of time to devote to solutions ... and positive action! Only in a perfect World huh?

[Wildchild]

So how many planes have been scrapped already and which ones?

[Pat Carry]

So how many planes have been scrapped already and which ones?

If they have not been chopped already, the three that are soon to be pots 'n pans are the B-52, the KC-135 and the T-39. I'm sure the ones that end up in the boneyard in Arizona will be scrapped as well. I would sure like to know what will happen to the EC-121.

Last edited by Pat Carry on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Pat Carry]

Interesting approach to running a museum...
They decide they can't take good enough care of the aircraft already in their possession, so they decide to destroy (some of) them instead.

The museum does not "OWN" most of the aircraft since most of them are on loan from the NMUSAF Loan Program. The museum likely just asked to return a number of airframes and so the NMUSAF reassigned some airframes and moved some others to storage at DM in Tucson. I assume the NMUSAF decided others too big to be moved were to be scrapped on site. We can lament the loss of these airframes, but if it wasn't for museums like the Aviation Museum, the airframes would likely have been stored at DM and eventually scrapped with very few members of the public being able to set eyes on them. At least the museum was able to display them for some period of time.



I have been following this thread with interest. I hope you don't mind, but here is a bit of a Canadian perspective. In Canada we have some well respected flying collections like the CWH and Vintage Wings, but the real gems are the aircraft collections like the Canada Air and Space Museum at Rockcliffe (national collection) and privately run collections like at Nanton. Don't forget about Shearwater, and the so many more smaller collections that deserve a mention (Lancaster restoration in Windsor that deserves a mention). No matter how impressed I have been with the effort to preserve aircraft in Canada, it pales to the collections, at least in quantity, in the United States. The Smithsonian, Dayton, Pensacola, Tucson, Seattle, Virginia Beach, Mr. Weeks, etc. etc. etc. And this doesn't even begin to address the large number of smaller collections around the United States. I will admit it is a shame to see airframes scrapped but I think we all could use a big does of reality... an airframe is HUGE artifact. Most can't be kept inside, and displaying outside eventually means beer cans. You guys south of the border really need to count your blessings. You have so many fantastic collections indoors well preserved you really don't have that much to complain about. It is not possible to save them all, they are just too big. I see your budget reductions similar to what Canada has been dealing with for many years, so many year now it is just plain reality, a normal. Don't forget to count your blessings in what you already have and don't get hung up on the inevitable losses.

I hope I haven't offended anyone by saying this. Like I said, it is just a different perspective.

Mike

Well stated Mike. Its really going to get sad here in the US when in 8 to 10 years, 8 B-17's, 17 B-25's a B-24 and several WW2 fighters are made into Miller Lite cans!

Last edited by Pat Carry on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[wendovertom]

Humm - I am pretty sure Wendover could take care of the B-57 (they tested the "over the shoulder bomb toss" in wendover) since we have a small link to the airframe!

Tom P.

[mrhenniger]

Well stated Mike. Its really going to get sad here in the US when in 8 to 10 years, 8 B-17's, 17 B-25's a B-24 and several WW2 fighters are made into Miller Lite cans!

This actually points to to an aspect of this issue with which the Aviation Museum has been quite smart. They have suffered a cut in funding. They don't cry about it, they deal with it. So instead of trying to hold onto all aircraft which would lead to the condition of everything deteriorating, they are dropping airframes from their collection immediately (turning them back to the NMUSAF). It is sort of like an amputation to save the rest of the body. They are reducing inventory to the point where, even with the budget cuts, they have the resources to take on a new airframe and give it the restoration work it needs. The museum has been looking for a B-17. Would it not be fantastic that the Aviation Museum get one of those eight B-17s you fear could be scrapped in 10 years. How beautiful is that?!?!

Mike

[Pat Carry]

Well stated Mike. Its really going to get sad here in the US when in 8 to 10 years, 8 B-17's, 17 B-25's a B-24 and several WW2 fighters are made into Miller Lite cans!

This actually points to to an aspect of this issue with which the Aviation Museum has been quite smart. They have suffered a cut in funding. They don't cry about it, they deal with it. So instead of trying to hold onto all aircraft which would lead to the condition of everything deteriorating, they are dropping airframes from their collection immediately (turning them back to the NMUSAF). It is sort of like an amputation to save the rest of the body. They are reducing inventory to the point where, even with the budget cuts, they have the resources to take on a new airframe and give it the restoration work it needs. The museum has been looking for a B-17. Would it not be fantastic that the Aviation Museum get one of those eight B-17s you fear could be scrapped in 10 years. How beautiful is that?!?!

Mike

That would be great Mike but by the time the bureaucracy decides which if any B-17 will go to Georgia and then dealing with the ego of a base commander that will be losing a B-17 gategaurd,it will be too late. That whole process could take years and years.

[Pat Carry]

Well stated Mike. Its really going to get sad here in the US when in 8 to 10 years, 8 B-17's, 17 B-25's a B-24 and several WW2 fighters are made into Miller Lite cans!

This actually points to to an aspect of this issue with which the Aviation Museum has been quite smart. They have suffered a cut in funding. They don't cry about it, they deal with it. So instead of trying to hold onto all aircraft which would lead to the condition of everything deteriorating, they are dropping airframes from their collection immediately (turning them back to the NMUSAF). It is sort of like an amputation to save the rest of the body. They are reducing inventory to the point where, even with the budget cuts, they have the resources to take on a new airframe and give it the restoration work it needs. The museum has been looking for a B-17. Would it not be fantastic that the Aviation Museum get one of those eight B-17s you fear could be scrapped in 10 years. How beautiful is that?!?!

Mike

That would be great Mike but by the time the bureaucracy decides which if any B-17 will go to Georgia and then dealing with the ego of a base commander that will be losing a B-17 gategaurd,it will be too late. That whole process could take years and years.

I'm not sure turning them into the NMUSAF is going to save any of them. Where would they place them?

[Nathan]

the USAFM would scrap them if had extras and no one wanted them. Nothing else to do.

[mrhenniger]

Geez I hope you guys are wrong. Scrap them though? Really? I am sure there are some collectors that would love to show, disassemble and take them away. Even if they were parted out (assuming there is anything to part out) they would be of great value. I think there are a few restoration projects going on that would love even a basket case to help out the efforts. I just don't understand the scrapping.

Mike (the confused) (and channeling Mudge)

[Pogmusic]

Historical military aircraft, still owned by the military, are rarely sold OR parted out these days. In reality, it's never; but, you never say never.