Warbird Information Exchange

I'll give you a +1 on that last post. I see nothing to complain about by anyone quite frankly, the fact that there are people in the 'entertainment business' who would spend the time and a considerable amount of money to create anything 'veteran' related is a great thing no matter the subject. As long as the script content and intentions are good and respectful to veterans, I see nothing but a winning situation all around. We've said it before that indeed there are some film efforts that fall short of our expectations and many areas and outfits not covered but the simple fact that there are movies and series being made is outstanding. Until we pony up the money and ideas for new films about veterans we should all be grateful for what we are getting. No one is forcing these Hollywood folk to create war films. There's a lot of starving actors out there that would be more than happy to play your great uncle or grandfather in "What my grandpa did during the war"

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Zero Surprise!!...

Notice the folks who believe in past lives...everyone was Ceasar or Cleopatra....never Bertha the chamber maid or Hank the serf.

BTW: There was a TV show about the Red Ball Expess..Roll Out, a black version of MASH by the same producers/writers.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Gonna put you on the spot Tom. Can you clarify that statement please? I've never understood how John Wayne was the definition of a true patriot.

I love Duke movies as much as the next, but I'm not sure what he did to make him get that label?

If you'd said Jimmy Stewart, I'd understand. Highly successful in his career, didn't have to go, gave up everything for the sake of the country, stuck his neck out on the front line flying combat and then returned home. Never made a penny off his service and wouldn't let anyone else either. That fits so many of the folks who put it on the line for something greater then themselves.

Haven't ever figured out how the Duke meets that definition.

I've always thought it ironic that the Duke, who was basically 4F, played war heros, while Stewart came home after having actually faced combat and played a 4F.

Again nothing against the Duke, just that I've never been able to see how he's the definition of a true patriot.

I would tend to think that the whole point of these types of movies is to paint a picture for us armchair general types that illustrates what it may have been like for the soldiers back then. The showcasing of a particular unit matters not to me simply because its obvious that it would be impossible and impractical to attempt to show them all. Take it for what it is and be happy that you are getting it at all.

Already done, back in '52:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045072/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
Starring Jeff Chandler, who survived WWII only to die from an injury he got while filming a war movie.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

WHAT???!!!! blasphemy!!! ... NOT a true patriot?!!!! .... Well I'm here to tell you Dan Johnson II here's just a couple of examples of the Duke's military service ... lol

If it weren't for the Duke, we would never have won the battle of Iwo Jima


Publicity photo for 'The Sands of Iwo Jima'


Publicity photo for 'The Sands of Iwo Jima'

And If it weren't for the Duke, 'In Harms Way' would have been a lost battle for the US Navy


Actor John Wayne receives a briefing in the cockpit of an SH-3A Sea King helicopter on board the carrier Kearsarge (CVS 33)


Actor John Wayne receives a briefing in the cockpit of an SH-3A Sea King helicopter on board the carrier Kearsarge (CVS 33)-2


Actor John Wayne pictured with an officer in front of an SH-3A Sea King on board the carrier Kearsarge Wayne was on board for an indoctrination cruise preparing for the movie In Harm's Way.


Actor John Wayne pictured with an officer on board the carrier Kearsarge (CVS 33). Wayne was on board for an indoctrination cruise preparing for his role in the movie In Harm's Way 1964


Actor John Wayne pictured with air group commanding officers and officers-in-charge on board the carrier Kearsarge (CVS 33).


Actor John Wayne and Captain Paul N. Gray, skipper of Kearsarge (CVS 33), pictured before boarding the carrier in San Diego for her ninth Far East cruise

Source: NMNA archives, LIFE archives

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Zero Surprise!!...

A lot of people (many with political axes to grind) against Wayne makle a big deal about him not serving in WWII.
Here are some facts:
He was born in 1907...that made him 2-3 years older than Stewart, ten years older than JFK or 15 years older than my dad...a wartime B-17 pilot.
How many 34-year old, (non-professional soldiers, reserve or WWI vets) were out there in combat roles?
If he was going to be in a non-combat riole, I'd argue that his films, war bond work and USO tours were more important than him being a clerk somewhere.
Unlike Stewart, a pre-war pilot, I don't think Wayne had any technical training that would have made him especially valuable to the war effort.
At best, given his age, he would have been in a training film/PR job somewhere. At least in Hollywood, he paid a lot of taxes....

By 1940, he had 4 children and was given a family exemption. IIRC, that changed in the war, they progressively reqired a person to have more kids to escape the draft as thye war continued.
As an aside, In High School, I had a leftist teacher (one who called me a Nazi for being more conservative than he was) who said his dad always stayed one kid ahead of the draft board.
Stewart was single and had no kids.

And wiki reports Wayne was threatned with a contract lawsuit by Republic pictures if he left the studio to fight.

Two sides to the story.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Upon further thought and of a more serious post. John Wayne was (a) definition of a true patriot, not (the) definition of a true patriot. There's a difference. He certainly satisfied his legacy as one who served his country, not only during WW2 but wars and conflicts afterward with his patriotic film making among other things already stated.

One need not serve on the front lines to be considered a patriot or hero. Take all the shipbuilders, Rosie the riveters, mothers and wives as just a few examples. All hero's in my book.

John Wayne did his part and did it well. He's a patriot for certain.

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Zero Surprise!!...

Those Life Magazine photos are particularly rare because it's one of the few times I've ever seen a middle-aged Wayne photographed without his toupee.

For Wayne fans: the new book, recently out, "The Searchers," in part about the making of the movie of the same title. Interesting book, although about two thirds of it concerns the original girl-stolen-by-Comanches incident upon which the film was based.

your points are very valid. but wayne had the right of refusal to do any movie. he took the lead roll in the movie "THE GREEN BERETS" when the crap against the war, protests, ineptness, & blind leadership was at it's worst. he knew he would take heat for doing the movie & he did. I liken the duke as a cheerleader for the military. ( minus the skirt & pom poms of course ) hope that explains my opinion.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

No doubt about that Tom

I wonder how many kids went into the service after seeing a John Wayne movie. In two or three books by former WW2 Marines they mention having signed up after having seen the Randolph Scott/Maureen O'Hara movie "To the Shores of Tripoli". It was only after they got in that they realized what a load of BS most war movies were.

I know in "Flag of our Fathers" James Bradley quotes a letter his father wrote about being brought in to sell the movie "Sands of Iwo Jima" by appearing along with the other two surviving flag raisers in the film. His comment about the film is essentially the same thing in suggesting that anyone thinking they are going to see anything portraying what the battle was really like would be sorely disappointed.

So if patriot also equals recruiter/propagandist the Duke is right there at the top

I always loved the comment in Michael Herr's book "Dispatches" regarding "The Green Berets" It wasn't about Vietnam it was about Santa Monica. And yes we all watched the Duke smash that Mattel toy M-16 against the tree!

the biggest misnomer of all is the duke pulling pins off hand grenades w/ his teeth lol!! my dentist couldn't do that w/ me!! I've talked to many servicemen who's drill instructors told them not to do that during grenade throwing training unless you wanted to keep your toofies!!. anybody who did do that was 1 dumb pilgrim haw haw haw!! ( my on line imitation of the duke laughing ya big pallookas!!)

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Somehow this thread has turned from discussing an exciting, upcoming series by one of the greatest director-producers of all time, to one of the least talented hack actors of all time. I hope it can get back on track.

Given the huge numbers of squadrons, groups and men in the 8th Air Force it will be interesting to see in which direction this mini-series will take in focussing in on a particular story. will it be on a bomber crew or crews, or on a fighter squadron, or all encompassing? Will it focus on one base perhaps?

It seems like a massive task simply to work out where to start, what stories to use and which to leave out. No matter what they do go with there will be people here moaning that they should have gone with such-and-such a group instead though.

I think the US audiences who argue about which groups need to be filmed over others, which has happened above, are lucky that any of their war stories are being told at all in film and television form, and told so well by Spielberg and Hanks. It's a different story here, New Zealand fought for twice as long as the USA in WWII, we sent a huge proportion of our nation to fight overseas againast the Nazis and Fascists and then the Japanese. New Zealand produced some stunning fighter aces, many who were in action from 1939 through till 1945, and we had some incredible sailors, and some really amazing soldiers.

Yet our stories never get told on film because we are such a small population that it is considered uneconomic. There is a perception here that to make a film successful it must sell worldwide, which is true in some ways, and that overseas audiences would not buy into a kiwi war film or TV series. This is largely meaning the US audience which is a vital market because it's so huge, and it is probably right as most Americans would probably not be interested in a war film that didn't involve their own nation in the story, or their own Hollywood stars playing the hero. So whilst there are hundreds of potentially great stories that could be told about our kiwi veterans in WWII - and I have heard many first hand - the best we kiwis can hope for is a book or a low budget TV documentary.

The big budget dramatic war films never get off the ground. Only about three WWII films have ever been made here and they involve love stories and other ephemera rather than actual action stories. They have also been made cheaply and not been a success. When an attempt was made to make an action packed true fil of the war's greatest soldier, Captain Charles Upham VC and Bar, mid, the company hoping to make it collapsed due to financial issues before anyone was even cast.

So don't whinge about films and mini-series being made that don't show all your units, be thankful that some of your units are being shown in a way that future generations can learn about them, connect with them and admire their courage. Our younger generations sadly have little idea of WWII at all now, and it is not going to get any better here.

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Dave...that's what I'd expect you to say. (But you missed your cghance to say Peter Jackson would do it better)
Seriously, I'd call Spielberg a hack before Wayne.
He's terribly overrated. Admittedly, he's done some very good stuff and some stuff more maudlin than a Christmas card.
He knows what buttons to push to make an audience cry...but that's about it...in my opinion.
I'll consider us lucky if he doesn't end up having a couple of kids and a dog land a B-17 after it's crew is wounded.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Things may have been different in the US armed forces, I'm not sure, but in my research into New Zealand veterans I've discovered that the average age of the combat soldier and airman was a lot higher than most people think.

An example is the oldest combat fighter pilot to fly in the RNZAF in the Pacific War was Harold Souter, from my home town of Cambridge. He was 35. He was also killed:
http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/Har ... outer.html

However in our bombers and transports and flying boats there were many men of around that age and above. There were also Air Force groundcrew members well into their 50's up in the islands too.

And on the ground, in the NZ Army, there were many men in their 30's and into their early 40's in the front lines of North Africa and Italy from what I've been told by veterans. many were married and had sons in the army with them.

The most extreme case is Private Thomas H. Mockford, who served in the New Zealand Army and fought in the Boer War, then in the First World War, and then he joined up a third time in 1940 and served in North Africa with 2 NZ Division in WWII.

He was cpatured and imprisoned in Italy, but he escaped from Italy to Yugoslavia, making it to Tito's Army which he joined (like many kiwis) and then was recaptured, and again escaped, but was recaptured again and escaped again, till finally recaptured and imprisoned for some time till rheumatism and ill health saw him repatriated home to New Zealand in 1945. On arrival home in January 1945 he was 66 years old!

Now this is a guy that needs to have a film made about him!

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