caf looking for new headquarters

T Ricketts · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 12:04 am

Midland is not a tourist destination. They made a big mistake by moving there in the first place - I will concede that Harlingen was not a tourist destination either, but times have changed in the Warbird business over the last 20 years. Not trying to bad mouth Midland, but people don't go there for a vacation or Holiday. They need to move to city with a lot more to offer and more tourism and entertainment already in place. Ellington here in Houston comes to mind. Lone Star is already planning to move there, Texas Flying Legends has some aircraft based there, Collings Foundation has a presence and there are a few privately owned aircraft. Not to mention Galveston a few minutes away and the Kemah Boardwalk is already bringing people in....Oh, did I mention NASA's Johnson Space Center and Space Center Houston.

airnutz · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 5:36 am

CAPFlyer wrote:

Red Baaron wrote:

CAPFlyer wrote:

In 1992, Kelly AFB/Lackland AFB wasn't in play. It was still fully in use by the USAF. San Antonio may have put something together in more recent years since the closure in 2001 and the transfer of the former Depot area and ramps east of the runway to the Port of San Antonio, but not prior to that.

I seriously doubt that the CAF will move out of Texas, but it may make sense for somewhere like Austin or San Antonio to make a new bid for the new location as their air service, while not DFW or Houston level, they are better than Midland.

San Antonio was in play when the move from the valley was made, I believe it was the second choice.

Maybe San Antonio at San Antonio International, but not Kelly / Lackland. The Depot at Kelly wasn't slated for consolidation until late 1992 (over a year and a half after the decision to move was made) and even then, the depot was to remain a DoD asset for the time being. 1993 BRAC recommended the base for consolidation, but local petitioning kept it off that round. It didn't survive the 1995 BRAC, and all functions ceased by 1998 with the flightline being transferred to Lackland in 2001. The Port of San Antonio was established in 1995 as the Greater Kelly Redevelopment Authority, again, well after the move decision.

I don't think SA International was big on the list because of the high traffic. As I recall, Stinson Field looked really good except the location was smack in the middle of the lower half of the Mission Park system. Couldn't have "The Bomb Squad" mangling the serenity of the touristas visiting the old Spanish missions with explosions...a Parks Dept no-no.

That or they were afraid of disturbing the ghost of the Donkey Lady! :shock:

JFS61 · **Joined:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:44 pm **Posts:** 305

Old Shep wrote:

Nothing under-handed. Money talked: bs walked. Times have changed. The CAF presence in Midland will remain as it is, with the exception of the bureaucracy leaving to establish a new "super Air Base." Airsho will still be Airsho, the museum gets an upgrade, the local unit (sixth largest in the CAF) stays active, etc. This whole thing will take time, and there are some hoops to overcome yet before this is a done deal.

I recall HQ claimed it based the move on the results of what was a supposedly "non-binding" straw poll taken of the membership at the time, and in response, I recall that a number of Colonels banded together and sought out legal counsel as they felt that the organization had acted in bad faith and in violation of its bylaws. The legal challenge to the move was soon after dropped, but I remember it elicited some bad feelings among the membership, and some felt the group was never the same afterwards. Of course, not long after, it came to light that there had been large (and rather sudden) influx of newly commissioned Colonels from the Midland area just prior to the straw poll, so in the minds of many the whole thing took on an air of fait accompli, or as you more blunty described it, "Money talked and BS walked".

Ztex · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 10:46 am

I remember talk about Denton or Fort Worth, TX at the time of the Midland move...Alliance was brand new, but at the time there was a local group trying to raise funds for a museum there. (never happened and the centerpiece B-36 is now lost to Pima). Denton would have been a good choice me thinks...but money and (virtually) free hangars and space plus the west Texas warbird money crowd talked louder than common sense. IMHO

I do think that North Texas would have been be a great spot for them. (no bias here? huh? lol)

San Antonio is attractive but I just don't know how accessible the airports are....and how would Airsho be possible?

Move out of Texas? hmmm might have another rebellion on your hands if that happened? :axe:

Mudge · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 11:27 am

I don't care where CAF moves to as long as it's a helluva lot easier to get to than Midland. You gotta' know a more "popular" location would bring in a whole lot more $$$ than it's current digs.

Mudge the practical :drink3:

Minneapolis??? All due respect Dan, but you've only got two seasons there. Winter and the fourth of July. :wink:

(Just funnin', son. Just funnin'.)

jtramo · **Joined:** Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:39 pm **Posts:** 359

I second the NJ notion!

Sasquatch · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 1:14 pm

Two words:

Paine Field!

And if they wait until Allegiant Air fails with commuter service in a year or so, there will be a couple of brand new, lightly used hangars for sale, cheap. They're building them right now. And what better place than the new "warbird central" up here in the beautiful Pacific Northwest?!

-Tom

PS...I got $10 riding on who posts an answer to this ha ha ha :butthead:

over/out · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 1:55 pm

Well I would say Port San Antonio/Kelly but that's where I want to put my museum right after the lotto jackpot...and anyway besides the "Donky Lady" it would disturbed the castroville "Goat Boy", the south side "Haunted Rail rd. tracks", the "Crying Woman Creek", and the 2 haunted hotels downtown!.. Hey, I KNOW,...how'bout asking Mr. R. Lewis, I hear his air ranch is purtty cool, Would'nt THAT be a Great Fly In/ airshow!! G.Girl..FiFi..Texas Raiders..3/4 Bearcats...2 Tigercats.... :shock:

JFS61 · **Joined:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:44 pm **Posts:** 305

They might as well move up north, since they're already wearing yankee blue.

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 2:59 pm

How long were they in Midland after moving there from Harligen? If I were a betting man, they will stay in Texas either in or near the cities already mentioned; DFW area, Houston or San Antonio.

Randy Wilson · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 4:27 pm

The CAF moved into the facilities in Midland in very early 1992. Quite a bit of work went on in 1991 to erect the big hangar and reconfigure the old Windecker aircraft plant for HQ and museum use. We did a big AIRSHO and symposium on Pearl Harbor in the days around December 7th, 1991, the 50th anniversary of the PH attack. There were even five Zero Fighter Pilot members in attendance. It was quite a show.

Randy

K5DH · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 4:29 pm

As I recall, Denton was one of CAF's top choices (and it would have been a good one), but local politics killed it. Something about the city not wanting to issue chemical and hazmat permits comes to mind, but I may be wrong. They seem to have a big problem with that (and it's chased some businesses -- and jobs -- away, including a company I used to work for).

I wonder if they'd be more receptive now? CAF would bring a lot of tourism to the area and local businesses would certainly benefit. Jobs, tax money, prosperity... nah, they won't go for it...

p51 · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 5:12 pm

One thing's for sure, I'm not going to jump on the 'hey, move next door to my house,' bandwagon that always comes along at times like this. They should probably stay in TX, but Midland has always been a baffling spot, in my mind. The best place would be the best spot they can find for flying weather, cooperative ocals for events, and a tourist base (with a good hub airport nearby). San Antonio would probably be good for that, as it has all these things.

Sasquatch wrote:

And what better place than the new "warbird central" up here in the beautiful Pacific Northwest?!

Geez, just about anywhere would be better than the Pac NW for the CAF! :roll:

That's the last place I'd want them to go to, and I live there! I'd rather they be in a more centralized area that a lot of people get to, with good flying weather. It's rainy for 8 months out of every year, with fall-like weather as late as mid-June (the Olympia airshow was recently moved to July for that reason)!

dinghao wrote:

IIRC San Antonio offered to help them move to Kelly AFB. before they decided on Midland. The city was also going to provide abatements and help construct a couple of period looking hangers.

I had no idea that ever happened. SA would have been a perfect place for the CAF, a massive population, tourists all over and a great climate for flying.

Sasquatch · **Posted:** Tue May 14, 2013 5:33 pm

p51 wrote:

(the Olympia airshow was recently moved to July for that reason).

Just a heads-up, P51, they actually moved the Olympia Air Show to August 10-11, 2013.

--Tom

Chunks · **Joined:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:02 am **Posts:** 361

While I agree there are a lot of more attractive locations for CAF Headquarters than Midland TX, I think the point is moot. As I understand the issue, the only thing the new location is going to get is Mr. Brown and some staff. The museum and assets aren't moving anywhere. It is possible that I've misunderstood something though.

Chunks

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