18 Years ago today B-26 Carolyn

JohnH · **Posted:** Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:08 pm

The CAF Marauder and five man crew was lost 18 years ago today in Odessa, Tx. Unexplained accidents of mechanical failure involving highly experienced pilots like this one are sad and harder to accept.

hang the expense · **Posted:** Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:16 pm

I remember it well. Two of my good friends were on that bird. Colin and Chris. RIP

daviemax · **Posted:** Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:31 pm

What was the conclusion of the NTSB accident report?

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:12 pm

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 406&akey=1

JohnH · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:07 am

The Ntsb report really didn't come up with a cause. Both engines were off . Carl Scholl said recently in Veronico's book the Marauder has poor performance with one engine out so with both its gotta be a disaster.

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:57 am

Scholl was talking about the B-26,
the B-26G was a very different plane, longer wing, different angle of incidence on the wing, and I believe a larger vertical fin and rudder, and any plane with all the engines off can be a bad thing.

I arrived in Midland the following day and had to deal with a over zealous FAA, who I found on my plane, they opened the canopies and had the parachutes half out of the plane.

JohnH · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:27 am

Carolyn was a C, not a G. And I know Carl was talking bout 1464. I'm sure the later versions were better, but like I told Carl, they kept the A-26 and B-25 in 1945 and blew up the Marauders and there must be a good reason.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3332

Regardless of the cause of the engine failure(s), the fact that poor Colin and Chris (also friends of mine) were given no chance whatsoever of surviving the ensuing crash was a direct result of the good ol' boys in command of the aircraft failing to maintain sufficient airspeed to ensure controllability, and spinning it into the dirt.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 4484&key=1

daviemax · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:55 am

Matt Gunsch wrote:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001207X04484&ntsbno=FTW95FA406&akey=1

Thanks for the link. I see that the report did not reach a conclusion as to the cause of the accident; in my experience reading accident reports this is somewhat unusual. Even if there is little evidence to go on, usually there is a statement like, "due to the lack of evidence available, no cause of the accident could be determined."

Interesting also that no radio calls were made as the aircraft descended from its assigned operating altitude of 5,500 MSL; however, given Midland's elevation of 2,871 actual altitude AGL was only some 2600 feet - not much when there is an emergency.

In any case really sad both for the crew and the heritage of the Marauder.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7856

Should there have been five people on board for a prep flight for an FAA flight evaluation? Does it take five people to fly that airplane? Tragic no matter what the reason.

BTW in no means criticizing but just wondering if this was a common practice with that particular airplane to have five crew on board. And I'm sure it doesn't take me to remind us of the risks one takes when flying, or flying in, these old airplanes. Especially types known for being tricky and unforgiving. Again a very sad and tragic event, and one I remember well. Heartbreaking in so many ways :cry:

mustanglover · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:26 am

daviemax wrote:

Matt Gunsch wrote:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001207X04484&ntsbno=FTW95FA406&akey=1

Thanks for the link. I see that the report did not reach a conclusion as to the cause of the accident; in my experience reading accident reports this is somewhat unusual. Even if there is little evidence to go on, usually there is a statement like, "due to the lack of evidence available, no cause of the accident could be determined.".

You have to read the Brief to get that part....

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 4484&key=1

SaxMan · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:49 am

JohnH wrote:

Carolyn was a C, not a G. And I know Carl was talking bout 1464. I'm sure the later versions were better, but like I told Carl, they kept the A-26 and B-25 in 1945 and blew up the Marauders and there must be a good reason.

The B-26 ended up with the lowest loss ratio of any bomber operating in the ETO. In other words, if you had to fly a bomber over Europe, you had better odds of surviving in a B-26 than any other type. When operated as a true medium bomber at medium altitude is was a truly outstanding aircraft. However, it's reputation had been so maligned, the AAF was quick to dispose of it when other aircraft (notably the A-26) became available in quantity. The A-20 & P-38, for example, had higher accident ratios than the B-26, but neither suffered the kind of damage to their reputation that the B-26 did.

When compared to the A-26, the Invader was a newer design: faster, more versatile and could be flown with a smaller crew, and B-26 groups were beginning to transition to the A-26 towards the end of the war. The B-25 was retained after the war not as a combat aircraft, but as a trainer, where it's far more forgiving flight characteristics when compared to the B-26 were more appropriate for the training role.

The B-26 was no different than a lot of designs from the time period: If you get below Vmc, it will turn around and bite you in the butt.

PinecastleAAF · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2007 4:50 pm **Posts:** 1028

Some interesting items in this link particulary the last one from the wartime B-26 instructor pilot who took a ride not long before the crash and made some observations on their approach method.

http://387bg.com/Aircraft/B-26%20Carolyn.htm

dred · **Joined:** Sat May 05, 2007 11:26 pm **Posts:** 154

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:49 pm

Mike wrote:

Regardless of the cause of the engine failure(s), the fact that poor Colin and Chris (also friends of mine) were given no chance whatsoever of surviving the ensuing crash was a direct result of the good ol' boys in command of the aircraft failing to maintain sufficient airspeed to ensure controllability, and spinning it into the dirt.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 4484&key=1

I understand your pain, but you have to remember that "The Good Ole Boy's" up front sure as He11 did not take off that day with the intention of killing anyone much less themselves. I flew a good bit with 2 of those guys, & I know for a fact how good, responsible, & professional they were, so how about knock off the attitude that your buddies were done-in on purpose! Nobody drug them on board that aircraft!
It was & still is a very sad day for all involved, & for 18 years, each & everyone of those folks & their families have been in my prayers on the anniversary of this tragic loss.
God bless all affected by the loss of "Carolyn"
With Regards & Respect
Robbie

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18 Years ago today B-26 Carolyn

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