Possible Paine Field (Everett, WA) Vintage/Warbird Planning

[Rajay]

The County wanted (insert name here) to pay for and build a terminal which would then become county property and (same name) would be allowed to use it until they didn't then it's 'see ya-' with zero compensation...

That's how it is everywhere! And contrary to conventional wisdom, politics is the world's oldest profession...ummm, like I said, in accordance with conventional wisdom, politics is the world's oldest profession - and a rose by any other name, etc.

[The Inspector]

The County wanted (insert name here) to pay for and build a terminal which would then become county property and (same name) would be allowed to use it until they didn't then it's 'see ya-' with zero compensation...

That's how it is everywhere! And contrary to conventional wisdom, politics is the world's oldest profession...ummm, like I said, in accordance with conventional wisdom, politics is the world's oldest profession - and a rose by any other name, etc.

Agree, but most of the time, the politicos in Snohomish County would make you admire how open, up front, and forthright your average Lousiana politician is.

[alang]

As you are reading this, the old wooden Army buildings adjacent to FHC at the south end of PAE are being demolished to make way for FHC's new Tank Arena to be opened next spring. FHC is growing. . A beautiful T-6 was donated to the Museum of Flight Restoration Center, and the Super Corsair is being moved to there also to make room for the Amelia Earhart exhibit in Seattle, they have also acquired the front end of the Boeing SST mockup.

[The Inspector]

As you are reading this, the old wooden Army buildings adjacent to FHC at the south end of PAE are being demolished to make way for FHC's new Tank Arena to be opened next spring. FHC is growing. . A beautiful T-6 was donated to the Museum of Flight Restoration Center, and the Super Corsair is being moved to there also to make room for the Amelia Earhart exhibit in Seattle, they have also acquired the front end of the Boeing SST mockup.

News flash! The old Enlisted chow hall/E club was torn down almost 2 years ago to create more parking for FHC. The 70+ year old buildings were sheathed in asbestos shingles and insulation. The County Sheriffs deputies then had to go find another place to go hide out from doing their 'on the street' duties. The next target is going to be the old, nasty firehouse now that they have a really cool new one. the old County emergency headquarters along 111th is to be the armors new home.
The old base housing area is long gone and now a big aviation electronics plant and county ball fields, the old BX is long closed and the YMCA may be evicted. About the only separate structure still standing South of 112th St. is the old base chapel.
The F2G is owned by FHC (ex Champlin) and on loan to MoF

[Fight2FlyPhoto]

As you are reading this, the old wooden Army buildings adjacent to FHC at the south end of PAE are being demolished to make way for FHC's new Tank Arena to be opened next spring. FHC is growing. . A beautiful T-6 was donated to the Museum of Flight Restoration Center, and the Super Corsair is being moved to there also to make room for the Amelia Earhart exhibit in Seattle, they have also acquired the front end of the Boeing SST mockup.

News flash! The old Enlisted chow hall/E club was torn down almost 2 years ago to create more parking for FHC. The 70+ year old buildings were sheathed in asbestos shingles and insulation. The County Sheriffs deputies then had to go find another place to go hide out from doing their 'on the street' duties. The next target is going to be the old, nasty firehouse now that they have a really cool new one. the old County emergency headquarters along 111th is to be the armors new home.
The old base housing area is long gone and now a big aviation electronics plant and county ball fields, the old BX is long closed and the YMCA may be evicted. About the only separate structure still standing South of 112th St. is the old base chapel.
The F2G is owned by FHC (ex Champlin) and on loan to MoF

Alang: That's great news!! Are you able to say how large that new facility may be? I'm guessing approximately the same/similar footprint as to what was previously there.

Inspector: 1: We are aware of the buildings that have been torn down. I think you mention those every single time someone mentions additions to FHC. 2: So you're saying FHC has TWO Corsairs? Hmmm. Their FAA registry says they own an FG1D. If one's good, two is great!

[Brad]

[KPAE in the past has been home to Miss America, Scatterbrained Kid.

The F2G is owned by FHC (ex Champlin) and on loan to MoF

Paine Field has never been home to the Scatterbrained Kid. I don't believe the Super Corsair has anything to do with FHC. It belongs to the Museum of Flight.

While Paine Field does have a very impressive collection of airplanes and museums it doesn't even come close to Duxford in any way. Paine Field is just an airport and nothing historical that has happened there could even be compared to Duxford. No doubt it is the aviation destination for the Pacific Northwest if you want to see flying warbirds and is bound to get better but it is apples and oranges.

[Mark Allen M]

Some of you need to go back and read (or re-read the article) No where does it state Replicating Duxford other than the "feel" of aspects of it, of which I can understand. Sessions doesn't mean replicating the history of Duxford as much as he envisions a similar feel of warbird activity to Duxford. Some of you are reading way too deep into it for no good reason. Perhaps as opposed to bickering about whether the guy mean't to create a "Duxford NorthWest" or a similar "feel" to Duxford some here should be thinking about the thought of embracing the idea as opposed to twisting the whole story to mean nothing more than BS.

Why not try to be happy there's folks out there making the effort no matter what you want to compare it to. Who the F cares what he compares it to. Duxford, Chino, whatever. As long the guy has a vision that includes the promotion and progression of the warbird movement you all so much covet I fail to see what the h*ll some of you dudes are whining about.

Best of luck with whatever he wants to compare it to as long as someday there's actually something to compare it to is the only thing that matters.

Only at WIX would people find a way to complain about this. Some of you didn't even have to duck, the message zipped right past.

+1

[The Inspector]

[KPAE in the past has been home to Miss America, Scatterbrained Kid.

The F2G is owned by FHC (ex Champlin) and on loan to MoF

Paine Field has never been home to the Scatterbrained Kid. I don't believe the Super Corsair has anything to do with FHC. It belongs to the Museum of Flight.

While Paine Field does have a very impressive collection of airplanes and museums it doesn't even come close to Duxford in any way. Paine Field is just an airport and nothing historical that has happened there could even be compared to Duxford. No doubt it is the aviation destination for the Pacific Northwest if you want to see flying warbirds and is bound to get better but it is apples and oranges.

My mistake, it was called SCRAP IRON IV when it was here, later to be named SCATTERBRAINED KID (as I understand it's linage). The majority of the former Champlin collection IS owned by P.Allen's FHC (he being the owner/founder of FHC and holder of a REALLY big bag of Microsquish coinage) and is on extended loan to MoF.

[Mark Allen M]

The majority of the former Champlin collection IS owned by P.Allen's FHC (he being the owner/founder of FHC and holder of a REALLY big bag of Microsquish coinage) and is on extended loan to MoF.

Bill I certainly have no reason to doubt you as I'm no one in the know, but where did you come up with this information? I've been following P Allen's warbird empire for many years and this is news to me. I can find no record of this.

BTW would an authentic flying Stuka bring a small amount of warbird credibility to the Paine Field area?

[The Inspector]

The majority of the former Champlin collection IS owned by P.Allen's FHC (he being the owner/founder of FHC and holder of a REALLY big bag of Microsquish coinage) and is on extended loan to MoF.

Bill I certainly have no reason to doubt you as I'm no one in the know, but where did you come up with this information? I've been following P Allen's warbird empire for many years and this is news to me. I can find no record of this.

BTW would an authentic flying Stuka bring a small amount of warbird credibility to the Paine Field area?

Do you mean more than the already in place flying Il-2, A6M-2 seater, HURRICANE, Bf-109E, FW-190, and I-16 obviously haven't?

[C VEICH]

[KPAE in the past has been home to Miss America, Scatterbrained Kid.

The F2G is owned by FHC (ex Champlin) and on loan to MoF

Paine Field has never been home to the Scatterbrained Kid. I don't believe the Super Corsair has anything to do with FHC. It belongs to the Museum of Flight.

While Paine Field does have a very impressive collection of airplanes and museums it doesn't even come close to Duxford in any way. Paine Field is just an airport and nothing historical that has happened there could even be compared to Duxford. No doubt it is the aviation destination for the Pacific Northwest if you want to see flying warbirds and is bound to get better but it is apples and oranges.

My mistake, it was called SCRAP IRON IV when it was here, later to be named SCATTERBRAINED KID (as I understand it's linage). The majority of the former Champlin collection IS owned by P.Allen's FHC (he being the owner/founder of FHC and holder of a REALLY big bag of Microsquish coinage) and is on extended loan to MoF.

Scrapiron IV and Scatterbrain Kid were entirely different aircraft. As far as the Champlin collection goes the only aircraft that I'm aware of that MoF did NOT purchase was the 190D. That one belongs to Allen, all others are property of the MoF including the F2G.

[Fight2FlyPhoto]

Alright, WIX, you broke me...

BTW would an authentic flying Stuka bring a small amount of warbird credibility to the Paine Field area?

No, because, as pointed out by WIX'ers, it would be painted with the wrong markings, the wrong engine, and in the wrong shade, therefore making it completely obsolete and a waste of space, as with the Fw-190, P-40C, Il-2, Zero, and Bf 109. Seriously, I question why I visit this forum. lol Oh yeah, it's because I love the historical photos YOU post, Mark! I'm glad to see that SOMEONE here 'gets it' along with those of us who live here.

Seriously, folks, GET OVER DUXFORD. It has NOTHING to do with this piece of news, NOTHING. ZERO. ZILCH. READ THE ARTICLE and try to use that thing between your ears.

While Paine Field does have a very impressive collection of airplanes and museums it doesn't even come close to Duxford in any way. Paine Field is just an airport and nothing historical that has happened there could even be compared to Duxford. No doubt it is the aviation destination for the Pacific Northwest if you want to see flying warbirds and is bound to get better but it is apples and oranges.

Brad, Nooooo!!! Stop with the comparison. It's been stated a dozen times already, for the love of God! LOL NOBODY is comparing Paine Field to Duxford. Nobody. None. I don't even understand how this tangent started. Is it because the holy word 'Duxford' was merely stated, welcoming an onslaught of nonsensical comparisons? As you said, it's comparing apples to oranges, so WHY BRING IT UP when nobody attempted to actually do that?

I think someone mentioned Chino here, so because of that, I'm going to say that Chino doesn't hold a candle to Paine Field because we have three runways, one of which is covered in incomplete 787's. And Paine Field is home to the 747. So why would anyone in their right mind want to go to Chino? We have brand new 777's, 787's, 747's, and 767's just sitting around as paper weights. And Boeing has a tour center. So suck on that, Chino.

Get the point?

[Brad]

Brad, Nooooo!!! Stop with the comparison. It's been stated a dozen times already, for the love of God! LOL NOBODY is comparing Paine Field to Duxford. Nobody. None. I don't even understand how this tangent started. Is it because the holy word 'Duxford' was merely stated, welcoming an onslaught of nonsensical comparisons? As you said, it's comparing apples to oranges, so WHY BRING IT UP when nobody attempted to actually do that?

Get the point?

Jason: You are going to get saddle sores if you don't get off that high horse cowboy. If you take just a second to read back through this thread you will see that several people have compared the two. I was commenting on that and not the original article. Mike, Jim, August and Sasquatch made very reasonable comments to a question by Rajay about the two fields and you and The Inspector decided to get your nipples in a twist.

If you reread what I wrote you will see that I was singing the praises of Paine Field and still do. I do a bit of behind the scenes stuff up there, and down here, for them it so I'm well aware of the offerings and bennefits of the place. I was making the point that there is no similarity to the two locations other than the airplanes. If you've been to Duxord, I have no idea if you have or not, then you would have to agree. Anybody involved with any of the collections or museums at Paine would say the same thing. For the record, I don't believe the point of the article was, and I don't believe anybody is trying, to make Paine Field into Duxford other than to just make sure it is the warbird focal point of the Pacific North West.

Try not poke your self in the eye while getting the point.

[JimH]

We (Collings) have operated out of both the FHC's and John Session's facilities. I can say they are both professional and generous hosts. There is a loyal local following for sure...BUT...any kind of airshow, "fly day", will require a monumental effort and expense from either facility to make it a world wide draw like Duxford, Chino, Wanaka, or Thunder. There is a small specialized cadre of warbirds based in the area and it will take a lot more airplanes to draw the kind of attention the other (duxford) venues garner. I don't see owners swarming into the Seattle area for a show that has a 90% chance of being rained out. KCNO is 861nm from KPAE, just as an example...that's 4+ hours of flying in a Mustang at $1,200hr at a minimum - one way.

Then there is the issue of ramp space. We have a heck of a time operating out of either location...there is NO space to be had for 3 airplanes let alone 25-30.

I think John is doing great things with his vision of an aviation museum. I honestly think he would have been better off down in Olympia...or Florida...or someplace it doesn't rain 280 days out of the year. Duxford has history, Chino has history, Thunder has history, Wanaka is just bloody cool...come on .50s lighting off from a P-40!! so...here is your Paine Field show line-up

P-47
P-51 (2-3)?
FW-190
Spitfire
Tigercat
Bearcat
Me-109?
IL-2

all functioning on the same day? priceless

jim...tongue in cheek

[Fight2FlyPhoto]

Brad, Nooooo!!! Stop with the comparison. It's been stated a dozen times already, for the love of God! LOL NOBODY is comparing Paine Field to Duxford. Nobody. None. I don't even understand how this tangent started. Is it because the holy word 'Duxford' was merely stated, welcoming an onslaught of nonsensical comparisons? As you said, it's comparing apples to oranges, so WHY BRING IT UP when nobody attempted to actually do that?

Get the point?

Jason: You are going to get saddle sores if you don't get off that high horse cowboy. If you take just a second to read back through this thread you will see that several people have compared the two. I was commenting on that and not the original article. Mike, Jim, August and Sasquatch made very reasonable comments to a question by Rajay about the two fields and you and The Inspector decided to get your nipples in a twist.

If you reread what I wrote you will see that I was singing the praises of Paine Field and still do. I do a bit of behind the scenes stuff up there, and down here, for them it so I'm well aware of the offerings and bennefits of the place. I was making the point that there is no similarity to the two locations other than the airplanes. If you've been to Duxord, I have no idea if you have or not, then you would have to agree. Anybody involved with any of the collections or museums at Paine would say the same thing. For the record, I don't believe the point of the article was, and I don't believe anybody is trying, to make Paine Field into Duxford other than to just make sure it is the warbird focal point of the Pacific North West.

Try not poke your self in the eye while getting the point.

LOL. I've learned to duck. Plus, you just compared it to Duxford again.
______________________________________


For a place that's so centered around the promotion, preservation, and restoration of warbirds, I would have thought these two pages would have been more of an encouraging spirit. Not so much of a, "hey, this is what you'll NEVER live up to" nature.

But considering 10 years ago we weren't even on the Warbird map, I'd say Paine Field has done a pretty decent job of becoming a great place for Warbird enthusiasts. And the fact it only continues to get grow says a lot for the need and growing interest in keeping these aircraft flying. Isn't THAT good?

We (Collings) have operated out of both the FHC's and John Session's facilities. I can say they are both professional and generous hosts. There is a loyal local following for sure...BUT...any kind of airshow, "fly day", will require a monumental effort and expense from either facility to make it a world wide draw like Duxford, Chino, Wanaka, or Thunder. There is a small specialized cadre of warbirds based in the area and it will take a lot more airplanes to draw the kind of attention the other (duxford) venues garner. I don't see owners swarming into the Seattle area for a show that has a 90% chance of being rained out. KCNO is 861nm from KPAE, just as an example...that's 4+ hours of flying in a Mustang at $1,200hr at a minimum - one way.

Then there is the issue of ramp space. We have a heck of a time operating out of either location...there is NO space to be had for 3 airplanes let alone 25-30.

I think John is doing great things with his vision of an aviation museum. I honestly think he would have been better off down in Olympia...or Florida...or someplace it doesn't rain 280 days out of the year. Duxford has history, Chino has history, Thunder has history, Wanaka is just bloody cool...come on .50s lighting off from a P-40!! so...here is your Paine Field show line-up

P-47
P-51 (2-3)?
FW-190
Spitfire
Tigercat
Bearcat
Me-109?
IL-2

all functioning on the same day? priceless

jim...tongue in cheek

Speaking of weather, there have been, I think, 5 or fewer cancellations due to weather, only one I can personally confirm in the time I've been attending since 2008. And considering there are about a dozen events each summer, that's pretty darn good... I've seen 4 delayed an hour or two, but they've still flown. But please, don't tell anyone from California that. :-p

And also, the two larger events we have at the beginning and end of Summer frequently see upwards of 60-70 visiting aircraft. Perhaps not 60-70 B-24's or B-17's but certainly more than three. Still, space is indeed cramped, especially when Boeing hasn't moved their excess 747's and 787's. Hopefully if things get the OK for expansion, hopefully that will also mean significantly more ramp space.

But what do I know, I'm just a poor cowboy with saddle sores, apparently.