Were F4U-1 Marine's Dream Rear Windows Fared Over?

steve dickey · **Posted:** Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:08 am

Michel Lemieux wrote:

Speaking of the original birdcage corsair that was in NZ a few years ago....where is it now?

Brazil

;
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairregistry/f4u-17995.html

Digger · **Posted:** Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:06 am

Howdy
as promised, dropped into Classic Jets again today and took a number of photos of

a) the F4U rebuild for static rear cockpit showing the scallops
b) an original section showing the field modification and;
c) factory fitted changes to the scalloped area rear of the pilot.

Will upload images asap.

JohnTerrell · **Posted:** Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:59 am

steve dickey wrote:

Michel Lemieux wrote:

Speaking of the original birdcage corsair that was in NZ a few years ago....where is it now?

Brazil

;
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairregistry/f4u-17995.html

And it wasn't fitted with the birdcage canopy originally - rather it, and the scallop windows behind, were only added when the aircraft was restored.

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:19 am

JohnTerrell wrote:

steve dickey wrote:

Michel Lemieux wrote:

Speaking of the original birdcage corsair that was in NZ a few years ago....where is it now?

Brazil

;
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairregistry/f4u-17995.html

And it wasn't fitted with the birdcage canopy originally - rather it, and the scallop windows behind, were only added when the aircraft was restored.

Thats what I've been lead to believe. The TAM Brazil example was originally an F4U-1A (1st Blown Bubble Canopy with braces). Then when it was restored it was converted to a F4U-1 Birdcage. Then the POF example is a true F4U-1 Birdcage thats been updated to a F4U-1A. Someones gotta fix these at the same time!

Dan K · **Posted:** Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:48 am

Warbird Kid wrote:

JohnTerrell wrote:

And it wasn't fitted with the birdcage canopy originally - rather it, and the scallop windows behind, were only added when the aircraft was restored.

Thats what I've been lead to believe. The TAM Brazil example was originally an F4U-1A (1st Blown Bubble Canopy with braces). Then when it was restored it was converted to a F4U-1 Birdcage. Then the POF example is a true F4U-1 Birdcage thats been updated to a F4U-1A. Someones gotta fix these at the same time!

What evidence exists that the POF example (F4U-1A, BuNo 17799) was originally delivered with a birdcage?

(Just wondering why it's listed as an F4U-1A)

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7818

Apparently no birdcage. Only original braced, blown hood. Good discussion on the POF F4U-1A below.

viewtopic.php?p=148803

Dana Bell · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:45 am **Posts:** 13

Sorry to be late to the dance, but I just came across this question a few minutes ago. I'm new to WIX, but I've been researching Corsairs for a couple of years for two new books, and I can explain what you saw on Marine's Dream.

The Corsair was built to be as light as possible, but this meant the aluminum turn-over structure behind the pilot was prone to collapse whenever the aircraft flipped over on landing. Since ground loops and overturns were common, several pilots died in aircraft with relatively little damage - they could be crushed beneath the aircraft, or the armor plate could tear free and slam against their skulls.

A new, window-free turtleback was needed, but the need for more Corsairs delayed the introduction of that feature to the production line. In the interim, North Island created the fix you see in the Marine's Dream photos: some internal bracing was added, as was an internal hold-back structure for the armor plate, the rear-view windows were removed and replaced with formed aluminum structures, and a piece of heavy-gauge aluminum sheet was fitted to the spine (partially overlapping the rear view window inserts.

The rig was fairly common, but I still would have expected to see far more aircraft modified this way - espicially considering the danger to Corsair pilots in unmodified aircraft.

The armor plate was replaced in a separate change order - the pilot's head was far too exposed to gunfire with the original plate, as was his left arm (on the throttle). The new armor could be added at the same time as the roll-over modification, or later, or even on aircraft without the mod - as one poster here noted, completely blocking the view through the rear vision tunnels.

There are an amazing number of new details turning up on the Corsair - but I'd better get back to work or the books will never get done...

Cheers,

Dana

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7818

Welcome Dana. Nice to see you post here. Great wealth of knowledge and resources from Dana for those who aren't familiar. Very good fella.

M

Scooby · **Joined:** Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:45 pm **Posts:** 142

Dana Bell wrote:

Sorry to be late to the dance, but I just came across this question a few minutes ago. I'm new to WIX, but I've been researching Corsairs for a couple of years for two new books, and I can explain what you saw on Marine's Dream.

The Corsair was built to be as light as possible, but this meant the aluminum turn-over structure behind the pilot was prone to collapse whenever the aircraft flipped over on landing. Since ground loops and overturns were common, several pilots died in aircraft with relatively little damage - they could be crushed beneath the aircraft, or the armor plate could tear free and slam against their skulls.

A new, window-free turtleback was needed, but the need for more Corsairs delayed the introduction of that feature to the production line. In the interim, North Island created the fix you see in the Marine's Dream photos: some internal bracing was added, as was an internal hold-back structure for the armor plate, the rear-view windows were removed and replaced with formed aluminum structures, and a piece of heavy-gauge aluminum sheet was fitted to the spine (partially overlapping the rear view window inserts.

The rig was fairly common, but I still would have expected to see far more aircraft modified this way - espicially considering the danger to Corsair pilots in unmodified aircraft.

The armor plate was replaced in a separate change order - the pilot's head was far too exposed to gunfire with the original plate, as was his left arm (on the throttle). The new armor could be added at the same time as the roll-over modification, or later, or even on aircraft without the mod - as one poster here noted, completely blocking the view through the rear vision tunnels.

There are an amazing number of new details turning up on the Corsair - but I'd better get back to work or the books will never get done...

Cheers,

Dana

Totally concur with Dana's post, I have been researching Marine's Dream for some time now (at least since Dana provided me with the nex high resolution images of Marine's Dream).

That was most definitely a non-standard turtledeck modification on Marine's Dream. The plexi is replaced with sheet metal.

I can't wait for your books to be released!

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:27 am

Michel Lemieux wrote:

Speaking of the original birdcage corsair that was in NZ a few years ago....where is it now?

Sigh…

Scooby · **Joined:** Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:45 pm **Posts:** 142

Warbird Kid wrote:

Michel Lemieux wrote:

Speaking of the original birdcage corsair that was in NZ a few years ago....where is it now?

Sigh…

That isn't an original Birdcage. That is an F$U-1A backdated to one. But perhaps the sigh was for that reason.....

There is a Birdcage in Australia being restored:

http://www.classicjets.com/index.html

The only other true Birdcage is the one recovered in Lake Michigan and currently in Pensacola being restored.

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:34 pm

Scooby wrote:

Warbird Kid wrote:

Michel Lemieux wrote:

Speaking of the original birdcage corsair that was in NZ a few years ago....where is it now?

Sigh…

That isn't an original Birdcage. That is an F$U-1A backdated to one. But perhaps the sigh was for that reason.....

There is a Birdcage in Australia being restored:

http://www.classicjets.com/index.html

The only other true Birdcage is the one recovered in Lake Michigan and currently in Pensacola being restored.

The sigh is for:

1: That the aircraft is an actual F4U-1A and not a F4U-1.
2: That this plane isn't in the US flying (Preferably Connecticut where she was built) instead of being stuck in a static museum in Brazil for a political work over which I guess didn't end up working.

jollyrogerf14 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:55 am **Posts:** 50

Dana Bell wrote:

Sorry to be late to the dance, but I just came across this question a few minutes ago. I'm new to WIX, but I've been researching Corsairs for a couple of years for two new books, and I can explain what you saw on Marine's Dream.

The Corsair was built to be as light as possible, but this meant the aluminum turn-over structure behind the pilot was prone to collapse whenever the aircraft flipped over on landing. Since ground loops and overturns were common, several pilots died in aircraft with relatively little damage - they could be crushed beneath the aircraft, or the armor plate could tear free and slam against their skulls.

A new, window-free turtleback was needed, but the need for more Corsairs delayed the introduction of that feature to the production line. In the interim, North Island created the fix you see in the Marine's Dream photos: some internal bracing was added, as was an internal hold-back structure for the armor plate, the rear-view windows were removed and replaced with formed aluminum structures, and a piece of heavy-gauge aluminum sheet was fitted to the spine (partially overlapping the rear view window inserts.

The rig was fairly common, but I still would have expected to see far more aircraft modified this way - espicially considering the danger to Corsair pilots in unmodified aircraft.

The armor plate was replaced in a separate change order - the pilot's head was far too exposed to gunfire with the original plate, as was his left arm (on the throttle). The new armor could be added at the same time as the roll-over modification, or later, or even on aircraft without the mod - as one poster here noted, completely blocking the view through the rear vision tunnels.

There are an amazing number of new details turning up on the Corsair - but I'd better get back to work or the books will never get done...

Cheers,

Dana

THANKS FOR THE INFO DANA!
Better Late Than Never!!

V.C.

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