Hill AFB Museum getting rid of 18 planes...

[mustangdriver]

If you are talking about air museums like Hill, SAC Museum, Dover, and some of the others, then I will defend them any time. There are lots of great people there and they do indeed try to do it right. If you are talking about a pole dancer that is different. Even then there are some out door air parks that try to do it right.

[Pat Carry]

I'm thinking this type of downsizing will become more prevelent at aviations museums as time goes on. The srapman could be very busy in the next decade.

[RacingMustang]

...quite frankly the NMUSAF aircraft are in a prolonged death spiral. 99% of them are gutted shells...it's tragic.

jim

Really?? That's certainly not the impression I get, and I live here and have been to the museum countless times. Sure, they're not waxed and shined and babied like Tom Cruise's P-51, but they're all in pretty good shape.

[Mark Allen M]

If you are talking about air museums like Hill, SAC Museum, Dover, and some of the others, then I will defend them any time. There are lots of great people there and they do indeed try to do it right. If you are talking about a pole dancer that is different. Even then there are some out door air parks that try to do it right.

You don't have to defend anybody, no need for that for me. As for great people? sure there's lots of great people who try to do their best at all kinds of things ... and fail. The bottom line should always be the same no matter what the deal, if you can't properly take care of something, give it to someone(s) who can. Great people do that all the time and the great people at the NMUSAF and all your listed Museums above should be no exception.

Of course that's in a perfect world.

[Mark Allen M]

...quite frankly the NMUSAF aircraft are in a prolonged death spiral. 99% of them are gutted shells...it's tragic.

jim

Really?? That's certainly not the impression I get, and I live here and have been to the museum countless times. Sure, they're not waxed and shined and babied like Tom Cruise's P-51, but they're all in pretty good shape.

I believe he's talking about scattered aircraft in different locations that are under the jurisdiction of the NMUSAF, not so much the Dayton collection.

[JohnB]

Luckily someone managed to sneak 27 military aircraft into the downtown facility (a majority of the 48 aircraft on display) and 61 military aircraft into Udvar-Hazy when the people who run the NASM weren't looking.

August

Yes, they have plenty of warbirds downtown...but many/most are non-US. And the F-104 is in NASA markings.
For the American National air museum the fact they don't have a B-17, B-24, B-47, B-36, B-58 or B-52 on display is odd.
As I said, lacking all of them smacks of PC-ism considering the role bombers played in WWII and the Cold War and they are genuine artifacts.
And don't forget the Enola Gay debacle.

As I've said, it's great they have a Do-335 or a Japanese sub launched airplane (both technical oddities that played no part in US history), but can't manage to find the space to display a B-17 is a crime. The sat on the Swoose for 50+ years before letting her go to a home where she's being restored.
It would have been nice for the Smithsonian to have recognized B-17/b-24s while the generation that designed, built and flew them was still around.

[Chief]

I hope they don't get rid of this C-124C 53-0050. It was one of the last that was built and I was fortunate to fly on it and turn wrenches on it when we had it at Dover. If they do want to get rid of it, I hope it goes to Dover where it spent most of it's time in service.

The C-124 currently in Dover is a "slick wing" C-124A model which came from the old SAC Museum and was never assigned to Dover.

[tom d. friedman]

chalk up another loss to governmental sequestration. other than the usaf museum in Dayton ohio, i guess most aviation museums should be privatized with the track record I've seen within the past year. sure some private museums are suffering or going belly up, but not like government run museums. who loses again??" john q. taxpayer.

[marine air]

I was at Udvar-Hazy last month. It did seem to have a heavy military theme. But, those are my tastes, too. I had to keep reminding myself that many of the treasures were 1) at the mall, 2) in storage), 3) loaned out elsewhere. I went to the Mall when it first opened over thirty years ago , as a kid. So I knew the DC-3 , B-247, P-51D, A-4, and others were there.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, there haven't seem to have been any revisions to the selections.
For example, a few types that could be traded for something more significant; The Beech V-35, and BE-18 they have on display. Didn't seem to be that historic to me. Likewise with the Benson Gyrocopter and Gyro-glider. WHat history or scientific breakthroughs do they represent? (Remember , the German WWII designs are on display as well as the 1930's and 1940's american and british rotary aircraft. Overall the rotary section was an A+ for me as a viewer.
The FEDEX Falcon 20 is either the first or second that FEDEX owned. Frederick Smith of FEDEX is a visionary like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. He waged corporate warfare on the USPS, purchasing factory new small bizjets to freighters and becoming a billionaire in the process.
Last, the F8F Bearcat "Conquest I" didn't do anything for me. All of it's records have been shattered, and "Rare Bear" probably has made more history at this point. I just didn't find it fascinating.
A+ on the docents, they were friendly, and quite knowledgeable.

[RandolphB]

Last, the F8F Bearcat "Conquest I" didn't do anything for me. All of it's records have been shattered, and "Rare Bear" probably has made more history at this point. I just didn't find it fascinating.
.

I disagree with this point of view for a number of reasons. First, it doesn't matter if all its records have been broken by other aircraft. I am fairly certain that an F-15 will out perform a P-51 at every level...should P-51's be tossed out of museums for not having current performance? Next, its a crime that noted Air Racers get ZERO respect. How many have been converted back to stock, or worse..dual control, so they can be sold off for more? How about turning a noted Air Racer into yet another Red Tail bird...why destroy an actual history for a fake one without a thought? Air Racing is where the spirit of inovation thrived and lived on after the technical achievements of each of the World Wars, yet you'ed be hard pressed to find even a display or two focused on its entire history at most museums. MANY of the surviving Warbird flock survived because somebody wanted to race the hell out of a neat old airplane. As for the Bear, she has a huge budget and an attitude like a teenage Hollywood actress. She gives her handlers hell. But I'd hate to see her ever converted back into just another Bearcat!

[JohnB]

I hope they don't get rid of this C-124C 53-0050. It was one of the last that was built and I was fortunate to fly on it and turn wrenches on it when we had it at Dover. If they do want to get rid of it, I hope it goes to Dover where it spent most of it's time in service.

I'd imagine given its size and the cost of disassembly and transporting, Dover is not likely to replace one Globemaster for another.
And for the same reasons, if a museum wanted to get rid of a 124, it would be a death sentence for the aircraft.

I have my dad's old 124 dash 1. I'd love to see it end up in a 124 cockpit somewhere (and stay there..not end up in a museum file cabinet or someone's library).

[6trn4brn]

Ummm.....sorry to sound stupid here, but what is the significance of this B-47 and why should the NASM take control of it? Udvar-Hazy is getting quite full...where else would they display it? From the one person I talked to at Udvar-Hazy the last time I was there, the plan to bring Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby is still on. Can't imagine where they will put it, but do agree that with the number of visitors they have every year, it will be seen by the sadly dwindling number of our greatest generation.

Overall, I think Udvar-Hazy does a great job of presenting significant aircraft in a facility that is 100 times more favorable to picture taking than NMUSAF.

[The Inspector]

Ummm.....sorry to sound stupid here, but what is the significance of this B-47 and why should the NASM take control of it? Udvar-Hazy is getting quite full...where else would they display it? From the one person I talked to at Udvar-Hazy the last time I was there, the plan to bring Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby is still on. Can't imagine where they will put it, but do agree that with the number of visitors they have every year, it will be seen by the sadly dwindling number of our greatest generation.

Overall, I think Udvar-Hazy does a great job of presenting significant aircraft in a facility that is 100 times more favorable to picture taking than NMUSAF.

One very good reason is that EVERY large commercial jet aircraft owes it's existance to the B-47. It's Grandpa for large jets.
Of the 1500+ built, there are what? 7 or 8, maybe 10 still existing.

[JohnB]

Ummm.....sorry to sound stupid here, but what is the significance of this B-47 and why should the NASM take control of it?

My thought is that since there is only about 20 B-47s left, it needs to be saved. That's about 1% of the 2100 built.
The NMUSAF scrapped one a couple of years ago saying it was too far gone to be reassembled at Ellsworth following some parts picking for their RB-47. maybe the two could be combined into one more complete airframe?

Who knows, maybe the powers that be have decided the would needs a couple fewer B-47s.

I'm just afraid its one of those 1950s aircraft that we think we have more of than we do...like B-66s, F94s, etc.

[JohnB]

Ummm.....sorry to sound stupid here, but what is the significance of this B-47 and why should the NASM take control of it?

My thought is that since there is only about 20 B-47s left, it needs to be saved. That's about 1% of the 2100 built.
The NMUSAF scrapped one a couple of years ago saying it was too far gone to be reassembled at Ellsworth following some parts picking for their RB-47. maybe the two could be combined into one more complete airframe?

Who knows, maybe the powers that be have decided the would needs a couple fewer B-47s.

I'm just afraid its one of those 1950s aircraft that we think we have more of than we do...like B-66s, F94s, etc.