What's the consensus on Joe Baugher's lists ...

[Mark Allen M]

Not to be confused with any type of negative inquiry because it certainly isn't, but curious as to opinions by those of you familiar with Baugher's BuNo lists. I find his lists interesting and useful, yet not error prone, but quite robust and very nicely researched. His work is quite good IMO. My only disappointment is that not one of the aircraft my father flew (Hellcat's, Corsairs, SNJ's etc. and over 80 different aircraft of those type) are on his lists. I guess I just find this to be a little unusual as his lists seem to be quite extensive.

Again, just because I haven't found a listing of any of dad's aircraft on his lists doesn't mean in any way that I have negative feelings about Joe Baugher's work. Perhaps I'm not understanding the format and/or his methods being used in his listings.

It would be interesting to find more information on what became of some of dad's old machines. All I know is dad flew the CAF's Hellcat in 1946 (BuNo 70222) and fired a few rockets off that airplane. Lol ... Yah! Yah! Let's not go there again ...

[Snake45]

I've been using his lists on various projects over the years, and am actively using them right now for a Skyraider research project.

No, he doesn't have the final disposition of every single airframe. He does seem to have fairly good records on those lost in non-wartime accidents and crashes, and sometimes war losses as well.

As I understand it, he revises the lists constantly as new information comes to him. In my Skyraider project, so far I've found dispositions on at least 11 different airplanes he doesn't have broken out as of now. When I finish my research, I'm going to share it with him.

[Enemy Ace]

would it be possible to research / compare the FAA online database against serial # aircraft your dad flew? Maybe you would turn up one or two more? you might get lucky especially with SNJ's and Stearman types.
I used to do the same thing looking up ASA and UAL airliners my dad flew... just to see where they are now.

[cooper9411]

I've used Joes lists for a few years now and no they are not complete but they are very accurate. As far as using the FAA, good luck!

[shrike]

Joe's lists are reasonably comprehensive, accurate, and very easy to use. A great resource for starting research. Even when there are holes for an individual aircraft, the context of the blocks can be helpful.

Since the FAA has finished it's purge as part of the requirement to renew N-numbers every three years, it's no longer useful for historical research. Understandable really, they are regulatory records not an archive, even if they did function that way for years.

[John Kerr]

Outstanding piece of work, and is updated almost daily. Yes, it may contain an error or two, but overall the best and
most correct serial number listing outs there. Thanks Joe.

[gary1954]

I've been using his lists on various projects over the years, and am actively using them right now for a Skyraider research project.

No, he doesn't have the final disposition of every single airframe. He does seem to have fairly good records on those lost in non-wartime accidents and crashes, and sometimes war losses as well.

As I understand it, he revises the lists constantly as new information comes to him. In my Skyraider project, so far I've found dispositions on at least 11 different airplanes he doesn't have broken out as of now. When I finish my research, I'm going to share it with him.

Every once in a while I run across an Air-frame and share the information with Mr. Joe. His reply is a no nonsense .....thanks. accolades are not forthcoming. I imagine he is a very busy guy, I know I appreciate his website.

[Russ Blow]

When I bought my L 4 I learned of his list and found out quickly the so called " research " that was done for its restoration by an " expert " on my type was wrong and the AAF numbers painted on the aircraft were incorrect along with all the rest of the history that was listed for it.

I e mailed Mr. Baugher with the correct info on my aircraft and he updated his list in days. Quite impressive given the amount of data he has listed and the number of e mails he must get daily.

A great service to the community.

[bdk]

Best thing of its type out there. And best of all, it's free! One of the few times you get waaaaay more than you pay for. he is providing quite a service.

[Rajay]

In general I like his lists as a resource and I greatly appreciate all of the effort that he has obviously put into them, but in the area of Grumman Gooses, I have found numerous mistakes - but they do have particularly convoluted histories.

Just now after spot-checking his Goose lists, I can point out an example or two...

He lists Goose OEM s/n (c/n) B-101 as having been "to civil registry as N41966, then N2005 and then N2003. WFU at
St Croix, Virgin Islands by 1981 and broken up in 1988. The aircraft was C-FVFU at some point in its career."

However, the Goose that was "N2005 and then N2003" was ex-USN JRF-5 c/n B-141. I know for a fact because although its fuselage went from Dean Franklin to Deiter Martin in Germany, its wings ended up with Antilles Seaplanes in Gibsonville, NC - and yes, it was obviously "broken up".

Goose c/n B-101 is still marked as C-FVFU, but its Canadian registration was officially terminated in 2005 when it went to Croatia. It is still somewhat "active" and intact, and has never been "broken up."

Baugher also confuses serial nos. B-119 and B-140 for another example, but that is not really his fault - both were or have been registered as N329, but he doesn't realize that they were so registered as different airframes and at different times.

Goose s/n B-119 was the first Goose operated by Avalon Air Transport on the Catalina Island run in the 1950's by Dick Probert. It was much later used by Antilles Air Boats and then sold to a new owner in Indonesia in 1978, when it became PK-LEG.

Goose s/n B-140 on the other hand was damaged in Alaska as N1530H and bought by Dick Probert's son, Richard (of Aero Technology in Long Beach, CA). He started a restoration of it during which he had it re-registered as N329 as a tribute to his dad, but Richard died in a car crash before it was done (even before his dad, Dick died at something like 102 years of age!) That second "N329" is the one now at the Yanks Air Museum in Chino, CA.

[daviemax]

IMO Joe's lists are an impressive work in terms of scope. Since my work is mostly in B-17 history over the years I have cross-referenced his list with mine to insure the information correlates (normally it does). When his list has a gap frequently mine does as well, so in that sense his list is accurate. Since I am working on a much narrower field of study, I have more opportunity to close these gaps and have done so. However, that does not diminish his prodigious overall effort. In addition he has been helpful on specific questions; for example he assisted me in documenting the identity of VB-17G 44-83536 Hi Penny including arranging to supply a photo of her that included the serial number. From my perspective Joe Baugher clearly is a valuable member of the aviation history community.

[gary1954]

IMO Joe's lists are an impressive work in terms of scope. Since my work is mostly in B-17 history over the years I have cross-referenced his list with mine to insure the information correlates (normally it does). When his list has a gap frequently mine does as well, so in that sense his list is accurate. Since I am working on a much narrower field of study, I have more opportunity to close these gaps and have done so. However, that does not diminish his prodigious overall effort. In addition he has been helpful on specific questions; for example he assisted me in documenting the identity of VB-17G 44-83536 Hi Penny including arranging to supply a photo of her that included the serial number. From my perspective Joe Baugher clearly is a valuable member of the aviation history community.

Can we Get an Amen here! I say Can we Get an Amen here!

[Clifford Bossie]

IMO Joe's lists are an impressive work in terms of scope. Since my work is mostly in B-17 history over the years I have cross-referenced his list with mine to insure the information correlates (normally it does). When his list has a gap frequently mine does as well, so in that sense his list is accurate. Since I am working on a much narrower field of study, I have more opportunity to close these gaps and have done so. However, that does not diminish his prodigious overall effort. In addition he has been helpful on specific questions; for example he assisted me in documenting the identity of VB-17G 44-83536 Hi Penny including arranging to supply a photo of her that included the serial number. From my perspective Joe Baugher clearly is a valuable member of the aviation history community.

Can we Get an Amen here! I say Can we Get an Amen here!

Amen!

Joe's lists are an incredible resource and for the most part very accurate. I have found him very open to corrections and updates.

[marine air]

AMEN Brother!!! I think his site rocks. It has been useful for me to track down aircraft like L-3,and L-4's. Are they authentic or the civilian counterpart.
One of the more interesting things is to look at what aircraft got drafted into the military at the start of the war, DC-2s, 3s, Taylorcrafts, Fairchilds, etc. You'll see a lot of "one=offs" where the military saw an aircraft and took it from the owner and impressed it into service.
Many of these aircraft were from the military before the end of the war, sold surplus.

[marine air]

AMEN Brother!!! I think his site rocks. It has been useful for me to track down aircraft like L-3,and L-4's. Are they authentic or the civilian counterpart.
One of the more interesting things is to look at what aircraft got drafted into the military at the start of the war, DC-2s, 3s, Taylorcrafts, Fairchilds, etc. You'll see a lot of "one=offs" where the military saw an aircraft and took it from the owner and impressed it into service.
Many of these aircraft were from the military before the end of the war, sold surplus.