EAA 'Aluminum Overcast' B-17 Gear Collapse accident.

As reported today on http://www.aero-news.net

[mrhenniger]

Missing something?

Mike

[Scott Rose]

I screwed up. I went to modify the original post involving the B-17 crash and I accidently removed the whole topic. Hazards of new software I guess. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[Rob Mears]

Video here:

http://kcbsimg.dayport.com/htm/cbs2player.htm?Art_ID=2643&tf=World%20War%20II%20Bomber%20Slides%20To%20Safe%20Halt%20In%20Van%20Nuys%20Belly%20Landing

[bdk]

Video here:

http://kcbsimg.dayport.com/htm/cbs2player.htm?Art_ID=2643&tf=World%20War%20II%20Bomber%20Slides%20To%20Safe%20Halt%20In%20Van%20Nuys%20Belly%20Landing

Definately went down hard! They showed video this morning of yesterday's recovery using a crane to get it back on its gear.

I saw the B-17 flying out of Long Beach last Friday...

[DougR]

I was talking with Bob Odegaard this morning, he quizzed me "Can you raise the gear on the DC-3 on the ground?" I replied, "Absolutely" He said, "Wrong, but you can lower the fuselage!"

An earlier post here talked about a squat switch on the B17. I am not a B17 driver and cannot speak to that, but on the B-25, DC-3, and PBY there is no squat switch. You can lower the fuselage at anytime by moving the lever.

I am not implying that is what happened, but most WWII airplanes had no protection for such an occurence.

[P51DFltLn]

An earlier post here talked about a squat switch on the B17.

I saw that post as well, but now cannot find it... is it missing, or am I doing something wrong with the new message board format?

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[mrhenniger]

See Scott's comments above about accidentally deleting the topic. It is a new forum and mistakes will be made.

Mike

[jcw]

B-25, it is possible to although i think kind of hard. the military went out of its way to solve the problem of the gear being inadvertantly retracted on the ground. for the 25 you have to first remove the wire clip that holds the gear lever down the position a small lever/switch in the up position and then finally move the gear handle to the up position that relieces the up-locks and positions the hyd control valve to port hyd oil in the right direction. don't know about the 17 but my guess is that with all the mil and civil use after the war that it has a similar setup.

[P51DFltLn]

See Scott's comments above about accidentally deleting the topic. It is a new forum and mistakes will be made.

Mike

Mike - I read that, and understand mistakes with new software (I write software applications for a living). I thought I read the post about the switch *after* I saw Mike's 'deletion' message - it was a separate thread, I believe, started last night right after it happened. I could easily be wrong. Besides, I'm not overly concerned that things were inadvertantly deleted - just that I may not be utilizing the new board correctly.

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[Scott Rose]

See Scott's comments above about accidentally deleting the topic. It is a new forum and mistakes will be made.

Mike

Mike - I read that, and understand mistakes with new software (I write software applications for a living). I thought I read the post about the switch *after* I saw Mike's 'deletion' message - it was a separate thread, I believe, started last night right after it happened. I could easily be wrong. Besides, I'm not overly concerned that things were inadvertantly deleted - just that I may not be utilizing the new board correctly.

=R=

The deletion occurred this morning. The entire thread got deleted. I made a backup of it before I deleted it but for some reason when I deleted the backup the original went went with it. I don't know why it happened but I know how so it shouldn't happen again.

So its not you, its me (whoa, just had flash backs to an ex-girlfriend)

[Don Martin]

Is it just me or is anyone else having problems with the video link? Every time I try to open it, it shuts down my browser........

[Don Martin]

Thanks for the description, Rob. I's more than this @#$@%^#% computer wants me to know!

[Blake]

Hi Guys,

Just got done watching the Video, If you look closely it appears that the Tail Wheel was un-lock so it can be be pulling the tail-wheel lock.

It appears some-one grabbbed the gear instead of the flap handle, watch the video in slow-motion notice how the right main retracts.

Also it appears she might have sufford a Bellie Turret rupture thru the top of the Fus. if so then we are looking at a long down time from rebuild.

Either way you slices it not a good day at all.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the tailwheel lock/unlock issue. There could be any of several things going on there. The tailwheel will shimmy severely if too much weight is on the tail. There is an aluminum shear bolt that will "unlock" the tailwheel, if too much shimmy or other sideload is put on it. If the tailwheel was trying to retract too, no telling how it would behave with the weight still on it. My guess is that it was locked. Otherwise, they would likely have ventured much farther from the runway center line, depending on the winds.

"Handle" is a misnomer in this case. The gear and flap controls are actually just toggle switches on the B-17. They were designed long before the FAA mandated standardized control shapes. The gear switch is a three-position toggle (up, neutral/off, down). It must be pulled out to release it to move from the neutral position. It must be manually returned to neutral after the gear movement is complete.

It does look like the ball turret brace punctured the top of the fuselage. I hadn't noticed that before when I watched the video. One thing that *may* mitigate the damage to the fuselage is that the wheels don't retract all the way into the nacelles on B-17s. Maybe they helped reduce the impact. Wishful thinking anyway.

Blake
Volunteer - Lone Star Flight Museum
crew chief - Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress "Thunderbird"

[P51DFltLn]

Early photos:
http://www.aero-news.net (the article title is 'How bad was it')

Update information (and more photos) from Van Nuys:
http://www.beechcraft.org/b17-accident/

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