Warbird Information Exchange

What can I say? I like the tubby ol' Brewster Buffalo...

I've read everything I could find on warbirdforum.com about the Buffalo and every other book and periodical that I could get my hands on.
I'm anxious to find out what Pensacola Museum is going to do with BW-372 (ex-Finnish WWII Air Force Buffalo moved from Russia to Pensacola) and am saddened that there's only one 'complete' Buffalo (albeit with wood wings - Humu) left in the world on static display and residing in a Finnish museum.

I have two (2) questions - does anyone know the answers:
1) Do complete blueprints exist for any version of the Buffalo which would permit a 'new' Buffalo to be built?
2) This one's a shocker - Are there any aircraft which could be modified sufficiently (without a HUGE expenditure) to create a replica of a Brewster Buffalo?

Most of you are probably asking, "Why would anyone want to spend the time and money on a Buffalo?"
The early models were reported to be nice handling aircraft and I wish that I could have flown one during it's day. (Just not in combat against superior aircraft with superior pilots...)

Thanks,
Mike

i like the chubby bird too........ ok.... a real flying turkey with buffalo horns & wings overall........... but the type had it's brave & poignant moments, especially with finland..... even though they were the enemy!!the brits over singapore, & u.s. navy over wake & midway fought bravely with what they had, & while decimated overall in those pacific areas the type had it's moments their to shine proud too. the buffalo exemplifies the courage of the men that flew it, regardless of ally or enemy.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

If you're more than just curious about plans, I can suggest a few routes to take.

First, I'd get in touch with the folks at Cradle of Aviation. I believe they're finished (or almost finished) with their static Buffalo replica. Link is to some older photos.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN

One could also pursue whatever the national archives has on record. If they exist (and if you can get a legal waiver from whichever company holds the design rights), you should be able to puchase microfilm copies of the engineering drawings straight from the national archives.

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

Maybe it would be more easily built using the Finnish plans to construct a Humu with a wooden wing?

http://www.warbirdforum.com/humu.htm

Dan K,
Thanks for the suggestions about the people at Cradle of Aviation.
Judging from their photos, however, their static replica does appear to be constructed primarily for display purposes and is not duplicating the original construction methods. Regardless, it's still good to find out another contact/reference source!
Your other suggestion about checking into the national archives is a very good one! If they do exist, then maybe there would be an opportunity to purchase copies of the engineering drawings. (Heck, even copies of the drawings themselves would be fascinating!)

bdk,
Do you know if the Finns still have the plans for how they built their Humus?
If so, then I think you're right that building an "American Humu" with a wooden wing would be much easier (and cheaper?) than the original metal construction.

Any other suggestions/ideas out there???
Any and all will be appreciated!

Regards,
Mike

Don't know, but some of our European WIXers might be able to help with contact info.

TheFlash,

You may try contacting the Finnish AF Museum by email; keski-suomen.ilmailumuseo@kolumbus.fi

The museum's postal address, telephone and fax numbers can be found on their web site; http://www.k-silmailumuseo.fi/?action=ryhmateksti&ID=10

Regards,

Jan

The Original drawings for the Brewster Buffalo do still exist at the National Archives. They have not been transferred to microfilm though (or at least they hadn't been seven years ago when Chris Prevost was trying to get his project going). Chris told me that some of these drawings were enormous (22 feet long I seem to remember some of them being). This is perhaps why they have not been transferred to microfilm. I seem to remember that Chris said it would cost something like $10,000 - $15,000 to have microfilm made of the drawings at the time. I think that the Navy Museum would do a great job if they contracted out the restoration of the buffalo to someone getting a small production line together... that way they could have their aircraft restored for free, and some replica flyers could be made. Brewster no longer exists... they went bankrupt, and were not bought up and amalgamated. It would seem to me that this would make it less likely for someone to be prevented from making copies of the blue prints due to legal reasons.

On another note, the Buffalo in its -1 and -2 variants was a highly capable fighter aircraft. The Finns had a 26:1 kill ratio with them, flying against the Russians flying Yaks, MiGs, Hurricanes and Spitfires... so you could hardly say the aircraft was a dog. The Brits, Dutch and US Marines who only had a few encounters with them had problems because the -3 version was much heavier without sufficiently increased engine output, and also because they tried to dog fight a zero with them... a real no no with ANY allied fighter of the time. I think the Buffalo got a bum rap to be honest. Hopefully we'll see one on the airshow circuit in a few years, and we'll be able to tell for sure.

Cheers. Richard

Richard and Jan,
Thank you very much the info!

Richard - Your confirmation that the original drawings for the Brewster Buffalo still exist in the National Archives gives me hope that someday a small production line could be created and some replica flyers could be made.

Jan - I'm definitely going to contact the Finnish AF Museum to see if they have any drawings in their files/archives.

Any other ideas or suggestions on how to source Brewster drawings or blueprints?

Also, if anyone could point me to a website, book, article, etc. where I can see a diagram or understand how the landing gear retraction mechanism worked on the Buffalo, I'd be very thankful!

Regards,
Mike

TheFlash,

Another possible source for VL Humu drawings and technical information, is the Finnish aircraft producer Patria Aviation Oy. Patria Aviation started out as Valtion Lentokonetehdas (literally State Aircraft Factory), and it may prove worthwhile to contact them. But, you will most likely need to translate any drawings from both Finnish and the metric system.

Patria Aviation's URL is; http://www.patria.fi/index2.htm and e-mail; aviation@patria.fi

The Finnish Aviation Museum (FAM) at Helsinki-Vantaa airport may be able to provide assistance as well. Their URL is; http://www.suomenilmailumuseo.fi/en/index.html, and e-mail; info@suomenilmailumuseo.fi

Incidentally, the FAM has the fin and canopy of Brewster F2A-1 s/n BW-393 on display. A photo of these relics can be found on; http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/ Click on Finnish Aircraft, and scroll down to Finnish Relics.

Regards,

Jan

Hi Richard,
I'd agree with the rest of your comments, but from what I understand the Navy Museum's aircraft is going to be 'conserved' rather than 'restored'; that is to say it will have any corrosion and potential deterioration dealt with, and the aircraft reassembled, but it won't be torn down and have a rebuild done on it. That's what the museum implied when there was a question asked (here, I think) about them potentially losing the original paint-scheme by restoration. So, while it will be kept as an original historical artefact, I don't think it'll go through a stage where it will yield detailed enough data for replica builds.

I don't think it's likely we'll ever see a Buffalo fly, as it's just not attractive enough a subject and the workload / cost situation would make is potentially cost equivalent to a pack of Mustangs. Still, I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

Mike,
If you want to run down all possible avenues for data, you might want to bother the Aussies (they used them) for info, and the Dutch. The RAAF Museum at Point Cook would be worth asking, as would the Australian War Memorial. An advert in one of the Australian orientated magazines might flush out some stuff. I'd bet there are a few pieces left in Aus. Though none (AFAIK) ever ended up in Holland, the Dutch Military Aviation Museum (Militaire Luchtvaart Museum) covers the Dutch Netherlands East Indies Air Force as part of it's brief, and the Aviodrome at Lelystad might be worth asking. These are all longer shots than the other suggestions made so far, but who knows...

http://www.awm.gov.au/

http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/

http://www.militaireluchtvaartmuseum.nl/

http://www.aviodrome.nl/

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Raven

Thank you Jan and Raven!

I'm starting a "Key Contacts" file for all the potential sources (however much a 'long-shot') of drawings, files, and information on the Buffalo.
Your contributions, information, URLs, and contacts are a bit help - thank you!

Regards,
Mike

P.S. Raven - I hope to someday prove you wrong about a flying Buffalo. While I do enjoy watching Mustangs, I'd really like to see a Buffalo in the air.

Does any one have photos and details of the TWO ex NEIAF/RAAF Buffalo wrecks recovered from Derby Western Australia? in the late 1980s-90s??

Apparantly B-3174 which became A51-14 crashed south of Derby in June 1943 and was found in 1980 with significant remnants then exported to the USA via Sydney? and apparantly eventually arriving into the collection of the Aviodrome??

Apparantly B-3186 which became A51-5 was written off on 25 Sept 1942 also at Derby with significant wreckage recovered in 1999/2000??

Apparantly there was significant wing structure in good condition in these wrecks?

I cant find any reference to these items ever being granted an export permit to confirm their owners, the date of departure? or destination?

Does any one know their current where-abouts and status?

regards

Mark Pilkington

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20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

These wrecks were sold to Chris Prevost, along with remnants of a third. Chris had them for several years, and eventually sold/traded them to a Dutch museum. I believe that they are going to make a crash diorama with the remains, rather than a full restoration. You are right, there was significant wing structure; you could even clearly see the Dutch East Indies Air Force markings.

Cheers,
Richard

Something to note when trying to obtain any of the drawings that are part of the Smithsonian archives...the last time I looked, there is a quite specific document that you must agree to and sign prior to delivery of copies of any of their prints. It specifically states that you will not under any circumstances build parts for use in an airworthy aircraft. I feel that it is just a bunch of legal garbage that is meant to scare you off, but....if one wants to challange it in court, it would take a small fortune and a number of years to do so.
Also, depening on the time the microfilming was done, the operator care and the conditions of the paper drawings, there will probably be drawings that are barely decernable on the film. These have to be regenerated using all the available data and some detective work.

I'm lucky in that the drawing sets that I have interest in, I was able to obtain copies prior to the no-build restrictions.

The most effective thing you could do is regenerate the drawing set in something like Mechanical Desktop or SolidWorks.