Surviving B-17s tail gunner type, What's the count?

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

So as of today, does anyone have a count on how many of the surviving B-17s have the early "Stinger " tail gunner position, & how many have the Cheyenne " Pumpkin " type ? Thanks in advance , Tony

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

WOW! Thanks Sasnak! Great list! & thanks for putting in the model (E,F,G) of each. Did I miss Liberty Belle & the "other Lake" B-17 being restored next to L. Belle ? Thank You Again, Tony

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

Sasnak, Thank You Again! Sir! Wow! Indeed! :drink3:

Left Seat · **Joined:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:44 pm **Posts:** 151

If memory serves me correctly, there is a “Cobra” connection with the five 1990 movie "Memphis Belle" B-17s.

In an effort to make the later manufactured B-17Gs to appear like the earlier “F” models, the production folks with “Belle” movie contracted Brian Angliss of Autokraft Brooklands Ltd., Weybridge, UK to build 4 or 5 “authentic” replacement early B-17F stingers.

At that time, Angliss was building the Autokraft MKIV, a “spiritual” continuation of THE Shelby 289/427 AC Cobra in his Brooklands industrial park facility.

He was at that time the owner of the “AC” trademark rights and of some of the original Thames Ditton factory production bucks for the original Shelby/AC Cobra.

His expertise in aluminum panel beating made him a logical choice.

The Autokraft MKIV cars are considered to be real Cobras (even if they can't use the Cobra name) and are listed in the Cobra registry. If you can't own a B-17, why not own a Cobra? It gets better fuel economy. Nice picture of an Autocraft MKIV here:
http://mycarquest.com/2013/06/the-ac-cobra-mk-iv-what-a-terrific-car.html

Only the former Bob Richardson B-17F-70-BO 42-29782 N17W was an “F” model. Check out the "stinger" in it's "fire bomber" days:

Makes you wonder what happened to the 4 Cheyenne tail turrets from the “G”s (assuming that they still had their turrets).

Left Seat · **Joined:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:44 pm **Posts:** 151

Left Seat wrote:

If you can't own a B-17, why not own a Cobra?

Then again, it might be cheaper to own a reproduction "stinger tail".

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:29 pm

Sasnak wrote:

By my count: 12 stingers and 31 Pumpkins, but I might have missed one or two! :shock:

Note: Only 7 of the 12 stinger airframes were originally delivered that way. 5 of them have had a replica unit installed.

Early style "stinger"
-"Swamp Ghost" E
-"Desert Rat" E
-Flying Heritage Collection (Paul Allen) E
-"Memphis Belle" F
-"Homesick Angel" F (Offut AFB)
-"Boeing Bee" F
-"Shoo Shoo Baby" G
-"Movie Memphis Belle" G replica unit
-"909" G replica unit
-"Thunderbird" G replica unit
-"Pink Lady" G (France) replica unit
-"Sally B" G (England) replica unit

Cheyenne "Pumpkin" Style (G models)
-Recife Air Force Base, Brazil
-G model storage at the Museu da FAB in Rio De Janeiro, Brazil
-Royal Air Force Museum
-"Mary Alice" (Duxford)
-"Sentimental Journey"
-"Texas Raiders"
-"Aluminum Overcast"
-"Fuddy Duddy"
-"Chuckie" (it will always be Chuckie to me)
-"Yankee Lady"
-"Shady Lady" (Evergreen)
-"Lacey Lady"
-"Miss Angela"
-"Champaign Lady"
-"Picadily Lilly II" (Planes of Fame)
-"City of Savannah"
-Pima Air Museum
-Castle Air Museum
-Kermit Weeks B-17s (2)
-Liberty Belle - Destroyed by fire in 2011 (Don Brooks)
-Don Brooks (Dyke Lake)
-Strategic Air and Space Museum
-Dyess AFB
-Lackland AFB
-Dover AFB
-Hill AFB
-March AFB
-Eglin AFB
-Grissom AFB
-Barksdale AFB

-

you are a wealth of knowledge for sure! :drink3:

p51 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:50 pm

Anyone have tail gun assemblies that aren't connected to any planes?
I knew of one, owned by a junk guy in Florida in the 80s. I recognized it right away. Classic, "I'll never sell it," yet won't do anything with it, collected dust and when he passed on, it was sent to scrap because the kids had no clue what it was and the guy had never written down anyone by name who would have paid a nice sum for it. Everyone lost on that, I only heard of its fate years after the fact.
But knowing that, I'd assume there must be at least one other tail gun station section somewhere that isn't temporarily removed from a B-17 for some reason...

Left Seat · **Joined:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:44 pm **Posts:** 151

Aircraft with Autokraft reproduction stinger tail turrets:

1) B-17G-105-VE. s/n 44-85784. G-BEDF. "Sally B". (Autokraft stinger tail).

2) B-17G-85-DL. s/n 44-83546. N3703G. “Movie Memphis Belle”. David Tallichet/MARC. (Autokraft stinger tail).

3) B-17F-70-BO. s/n 42-29782. N17W. “Boeing Bee”. Former Bob Richardson (original stinger tail?).

4) B-17G-100-VE. s/n 44-85643. F-BEEA. Institut Graphique National (IGN). (lost while filming). (Autokraft stinger tail).

5) B-17G-85-VE. s/n 44-8846. F-AZDX. “Pink Lady”. Former IGN. (Autokraft stinger tail).

Stillwell · **Joined:** Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:47 pm **Posts:** 9

Does anyone still make repro tail turrets?
Certainly would be an interesting thing to have in a living room

WacoOne · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:54 pm

Sorry to show my ignorance but I never knew the B-17 had two different tail guns. Looking on line, the only thing I could come with is on one the fuselage extends for several feet past the greenhouse. On the other the fuse ends fairly abruptly at the end of greenhouse. Which is which?

Thnks,

Bill

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

Stillwell wrote:

Does anyone still make repro tail turrets?
Certainly would be an interesting thing to have in a living room

Last I read was that Tom Wilson of The Hawk Factory in Ga. is the one who is doing really great stuff with B-17 components etc.. At Both ends!

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

WacoOne wrote:

Sorry to show my ignorance but I never knew the B-17 had two different tail guns. Looking on line, the only thing I could come with is on one the fuselage extends for several feet past the greenhouse. On the other the fuse ends fairly abruptly at the end of greenhouse. Which is which?

Thnks,

Bill

Hey Bill, The "Stinger" ( I know the WIX Brain trust will give us the proper term) does extend out a little more than the Cheyenne "Pumpkin", which when you look at a Cheyenne, the guns are set in a "ball" which, with its rivet pattern, looks like a pumpkin.

maxum96 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:38 pm

delete

maxum96 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:39 pm

WacoOne wrote:

Sorry to show my ignorance but I never knew the B-17 had two different tail guns. Looking on line, the only thing I could come with is on one the fuselage extends for several feet past the greenhouse. On the other the fuse ends fairly abruptly at the end of greenhouse. Which is which?

Thnks,

Bill

Cheyenne tail

Called the Cheyenne turret because it was modified from the stinger tail at United Airlines modification center in Cheyenne, Wyoming during the war.

Stinger tail

No worries. There's a lot I don't know and fellow WIX'ers have set me straight. One of the reasons I love this forum.

Left Seat · **Joined:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:44 pm **Posts:** 151

Is that the "infamous relief tube"?

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