Doolittle Raid B-25B Questions?

[Garth]

Can you post a picture of that cover?

Sorry for the little bit of a delay in getting back to you. Here it is:



Here's a link to an Accurate Miniatures B-25B with the kit's noseart:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Pixilat ... S.jpg.html

In both the 30 Seconds cover art and the decal, "Donald" is looking to the right rather than straight ahead and has a blue scarf flowing from his neck. Which is hard to see it on my cover anymore, given the wear and tear of 30+ years of ownership, but it is there. Those seem to be the big differences from other representations.

One thing I wonder is whether 30 Seconds being an MGM movie rather than Disney meant the noseart had to be changed for the movie. I know Disney had a wonderful open policy about military units using his/their characters, even volunteered his artists to create or employ characters for unit logos (Fifinella, etc), but I'm not sure whether that extended to allowing rival studios to use the characters in their movies.

One last thing to add, here's a picture of the Snap-Tite kit I'm pretty sure was used as the model for the coverart:

Last edited by Garth on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Garth]

While I'm not sure how related to the thread this is, does anyone have any clear pictures of a B-25B's left exhaust stack? I managed to whip this up, but I don't think it's very accurate:

The cowl warts, pack guns and forward turret have been discussed. But you have the actual "stack" correct, I think. Maybe a bit too long, and there's no "notch" where they exit under the cowl (maybe the cowl is too long as well?), but otherwise ok. Of course you wouldn't have both a stack and the warts present at the same time.

The B-25B's flown by the Raiders had a short starboard-side stack but a long port-side one. See this picture of one of the Doolittle B-25s under guard at Chamberlain Field:

https://timothyblotz.files.wordpress.co ... rrbohm.jpg

Last edited by Garth on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Garth]

The NMUSAF "Doolittle B-25-B" was displayed for years with "warts" on the engine nacelles. After every ten year old kid who ever built a Revell B-25B questioned the docents about the nacelles on the displayed plane, rather than replace the component, they chose to cover them with OD tarps.

Long and short....I question the nacelles displayed in your excellent art work. I am sure others will comment.

Also the top turret is too far forward....should be back amidships...

I don't think you could just replace the cowl pieces anyways. You'd have to yank the manifolds underneath them, which would probably entail yanking and either replacing or heavily modifying the engines. Not that there's any intent to ever fly it again, but covering the cowls with the canvas is a much cheaper option while also being historically accurate.

One thing that I always notice on the NMUSAF Mitchell are the patches over the areas where the waist-gun windows used to be.

[Maty12]

While I'm not sure how related to the thread this is, does anyone have any clear pictures of a B-25B's left exhaust stack? I managed to whip this up, but I don't think it's very accurate:

The cowl warts, pack guns and forward turret have been discussed. But you have the actual "stack" correct, I think. Maybe a bit too long, and there's no "notch" where they exit under the cowl (maybe the cowl is too long as well?), but otherwise ok. Of course you wouldn't have both a stack and the warts present at the same time.

The B-25B's flown by the Raiders had a short starboard-side stack but a long port-side one. See this picture of one of the Doolittle B-25s under guard at Chamberlain Field:

https://timothyblotz.files.wordpress.co ... rrbohm.jpg

I am aware of the short right/long left exhausts. Stacks were built in accordance to the panel lines, but the game might have the engine a bit too long. Either way, yeah, I know, turret, gun pack, engine warts, but those are part of the 3d model, which I cannot edit.

[Maty12]

So, MustangDriver, can you send me that picture?

[mustangdriver]

I sure will. I will put it up here my next trip back to Indy. I am in Oshkosh right now.

[Pathfinder]

Pending the arrival of Chris's information from Mrs. Lawson I would propose that we start a dedicated thread on THE DUCK.
I have been stuck on the Duck since I was about 8. When I painted nose art on my first car I used a combination of the movie duck and the Duck on the map page of the TSOT book. I figured the book came out before the movie so the duck in the book was right. With the advent of the internet we can see that there were three versions of the movie Duck. And I am only recently aware of the supposed original artists rendering. Now 73 years later we have several different renderings...by model companies, artists (like Kordera), panel artists, pin artists. Suggestions of Donald Duck....3/4 views etc.

As far as I can figure it there is only one--maybe two--people alive on this planet who ever saw the original paint work. Anything we discuss here is supposition. Does anybody know David Thatcher? Ellen Lawson never saw the plane painted....Thatcher is the only person who can truly say one way or the other.

Thoughts?

[mustangdriver]

I talked with David Thatcher and he said that the art work was for sure on the plane. But he couldn't remember the details of the artwork.

[Maty12]

Well, to remember an artwork he probably only saw a couple of times for over 73 years would be madness, especially with all the details. I'm amazed Ted still did when Accurate Miniatures contacted him. But yeah, I support a thread just for the Duck. Too bad we can't really confirm anything on The Green Hornet or even the Whilring Dervish though.

[Maty12]

In the meantime (As well), can anyone tell me what squadron the following belonged to?
Website 1 Website 2
40-2344 none 34th
40-2267 89th 34th
40-2268 34th 89th

As one can see, some say they belong to none, the 89th and the 34th, in that order, while others say they belong to the 34th (Both first ones) and the 89th (The last one).

[Ken]

I don't think you could just replace the cowl pieces anyways. You'd have to yank the manifolds underneath them, which would probably entail yanking and either replacing or heavily modifying the engines. Not that there's any intent to ever fly it again, but covering the cowls with the canvas is a much cheaper option while also being historically accurate.

You'd have to do an advanced thread search, but someone posted a copy of the original documents from NAA that concerned the conversion of the RB-25D to NMUSAF B-25B. IIRC, there were parts and instructions sent to cosmetically restore the exhaust look of the B-model but those steps were never taken. Again, someone should resurrect the thread .. or merge it. I actually wish we had more mergers to cut down on the number of duplicate topics. Often times, there is valuable info already there worth sharing and/or re-reading and/or which answers the original question.

Ken

[Garth]

Well, there's always this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlqfH0hJoO0

If you pause at about 4:10 (and can get past Josh Hartnett being the pilot of the Duck) you can clearly see that Michael Bay chose to use the Accurate Miniatures/Landmark 30 Seconds cover for the Duck.

And who are we to question Michael Bay?

(and you know, I actually think that the scene is MUCH better in German with English subtitles )

[Maty12]

Yeah, I noticed that while rewatching that movie. A lot of people (myself included) may criticize it for all the innacuracies, but it's this scene alone that made me fall in love with the B-25.

[Maty12]

Managed to get a screencap on the Duck being painted on (From the movie). Might prove useful.

Oddly enough, the movie shows all aircraft as having noseart on both sides and has Ruptured Duck written in yellow paint. Wasn't it written with white crayon?

[RyanShort1]

In the meantime (As well), can anyone tell me what squadron the following belonged to?
Website 1 Website 2
40-2344 none 34th
40-2267 89th 34th
40-2268 34th 89th

As one can see, some say they belong to none, the 89th and the 34th, in that order, while others say they belong to the 34th (Both first ones) and the 89th (The last one).

Um, I think that they crews each had their own plane, and remember if they didn't like something about it, they were out. Pretty sure 2268 was assigned to a 34th BS crew.