Here ya go ... courtesy of Lynn Ritger

[Cubs2jets]

I don't know who is right and who is wrong with this whole thing. I do know that there are a LOT of pictures scattered about the interweb and other sources. Some are public domain, some are not. Any and all should be attributed to their source as best as can be done.

I, like many others collect pictures of specific interests from time to time. It is time consuming! I haven't found the energy to try and post any of these collections in any specific place that is publically accessable, though I do share with like minded friends.

From my perspective, Mark Allen M. has spent a HUGE amount of time collecting historical photos of many different kinds of aircraft from numerous countries from many sources. AND THEN he made them publically available for people like myself to enjoy. As a modeler, they were a fabulous, invaluable research tool. I never saw any claim that the photos were "his" and I did see attributions on many of the pictures.

Seems like the barest acknowledgement of the collector (by others) when re-posting the pictures as recognition of the work he did to bring them into the public for us all to enjoy is a small thing. Guess it wasn't happening.

To Mark Allen M., thank you for taking the time to collect such a magnificant collection of photos from so many sources. I quite enjoyed your postings on here and what you were building on Flicker. I and all the rest of us are the poorer for the way things have turned out. Someday I hope they can be available to us again.

Edited by Scott WRG Editor

C2j

Last edited by Cubs2jets on Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[CoastieJohn]

It appears that Mark has shut down his Flickr Account.

Will it be coming back online?

[BuzzBy]

Mark
Your posts and photos here are most of my personal favorites.
Sorry to see you go.
My hope is that we find you and your work again on this or another site.

My opinion; This and almost every other website that I know of, often miss out on some good guys with a great deal of knowledge and information due to the flaming or harassment by a small few.
I love the total freedom of speech but we do need to show some respect for our fellow brothers in aviation. There is usually a way to prove points without personal attacks.

My vote is for a bit more weeding of the trolls.

Thank you,
John Hess

[quemerford]

Quote removed by Scott WRG Editor

Apologies if I missed a post, but is this definitely what happened?

A shame if so: my experience of similar copyright/attribution issues is that often the owner of a hard-copy photo will claim they have ownership of an image, despite it obviously being attributable elsewhere. I do try to provide credit where it is available, and in cases where my own photos (that is, photos that I took myself) have been used without credit, I either get on with life and get over it, or more commonly, enjoy the fact that someone liked it enough to use it themselves.

So let's hope that these images can be re-posted, though I imagine it's a thankless task, and nigh-on impossible to sort out credits, for no real reward.

[DoraNineFan]

Quote removed by Scott WRG Editor

Apologies if I missed a post, but is this definitely what happened?

A shame if so: my experience of similar copyright/attribution issues is that often the owner of a hard-copy photo will claim they have ownership of an image, despite it obviously being attributable elsewhere. I do try to provide credit where it is available, and in cases where my own photos (that is, photos that I took myself) have been used without credit, I either get on with life and get over it, or more commonly, enjoy the fact that someone liked it enough to use it themselves.

So let's hope that these images can be re-posted, though I imagine it's a thankless task, and nigh-on impossible to sort out credits, for no real reward.

That is absolutely not what happened.

It had nothing to do with copyright infringement or harassment from other forum members, as alleged by the cursing poster above.

I followed the topic and Mark disagreed with some comments in the TIGHAR thread, and was unable to follow advice from others to just let it go. In internet forum terminology, it was a classic case of someone taking their ball and going home which we've all seen countless times.

Marks photo contributions were appreciated, but nobody can change another person's convictions.

[airnutz]

Quote removed by Scott WRG Editor

Apologies if I missed a post, but is this definitely what happened?

A shame if so: my experience of similar copyright/attribution issues is that often the owner of a hard-copy photo will claim they have ownership of an image, despite it obviously being attributable elsewhere. I do try to provide credit where it is available, and in cases where my own photos (that is, photos that I took myself) have been used without credit, I either get on with life and get over it, or more commonly, enjoy the fact that someone liked it enough to use it themselves.

So let's hope that these images can be re-posted, though I imagine it's a thankless task, and nigh-on impossible to sort out credits, for no real reward.

That is absolutely not what happened.

It had nothing to do with copyright infringement or harassment from other forum members, as alleged by the cursing poster above.

I followed the topic and Mark disagreed with some comments in the TIGHAR thread, and was unable to follow advice from others to just let it go. In internet forum terminology, it was a classic case of someone taking their ball and going home which we've all seen countless times.

Marks photo contributions were appreciated, but nobody can change another person's convictions.

Well...actually DNF that is basically what happened with a new member beginning Friday and it was over by Saturday AM. The 2 of them had words over photo origins etc. and Mark rather quickly Belushi-ed out.

EDIT
The mods and/or Scott cleansed the dustup, so there nothing to see here folks...keep moving on....

[DoraNineFan]

Quote removed by Scott WRG Editor

Apologies if I missed a post, but is this definitely what happened?

A shame if so: my experience of similar copyright/attribution issues is that often the owner of a hard-copy photo will claim they have ownership of an image, despite it obviously being attributable elsewhere. I do try to provide credit where it is available, and in cases where my own photos (that is, photos that I took myself) have been used without credit, I either get on with life and get over it, or more commonly, enjoy the fact that someone liked it enough to use it themselves.

So let's hope that these images can be re-posted, though I imagine it's a thankless task, and nigh-on impossible to sort out credits, for no real reward.

That is absolutely not what happened.

It had nothing to do with copyright infringement or harassment from other forum members, as alleged by the cursing poster above.

I followed the topic and Mark disagreed with some comments in the TIGHAR thread, and was unable to follow advice from others to just let it go. In internet forum terminology, it was a classic case of someone taking their ball and going home which we've all seen countless times.

Marks photo contributions were appreciated, but nobody can change another person's convictions.

Well...actually DNF that is basically what happened with a new member beginning Friday and it was over by Saturday AM. The 2 of them had words over photo origins etc. and Mark rather quickly Belushi-ed out.

EDIT
The mods and/or Scott cleansed the dustup, so there nothing to see here folks...keep moving on....

I missed that topic. Thanks for clarifying.

[Mark Allen M]

So here we go again huh? ...

I've always suggested in the past for those who feel the need to use words such as "absolutely" that they actually do some research before they absolutely confuse themselves, which not surprisingly seems to be the case again with another poster here. I'll make it clear again for those who are absolutely confused. The TIGHAR threads are worthwhile and valuable in many constructive ways (for those who actually care about that AE stuff), but grinding axes with the intent to cause damage and harm for any reason on a very public internet forum is wrong, in bad taste, and as classless as it gets no matter what the reason or alleged excuse. Complain, whine, debate, cry about a paint scheme? All harmless if it's in done with a fair amount of restraint and respect, (of which I'm still learning lessons myself) but slander and accusations of dishonesty, corruption and fraud? Sorry but no way should it be allowed here or anywhere if you are trying to maintain a respectable internet forum. There's other places for that nonsense. The owner of this site has stated before that this forum is not run as a democracy, it's more like a dictatorship. I get that just fine, but many others here don't. If you feel something you value is being treated as unfair? You owe it to yourself to leave if you can't handle it. I've chosen to do that. Nothing personal, just my choice. Quite frankly I'd have to question what's more valuable to the overall benefit and welfare of this site when things such as allowing axe-grinders to infest this site happen, but that's just me.

I'll give you a little more insight. I've posted thousands of photos on this site and a couple of other sites for nothing more than it was enjoyable to those who appreciated the efforts and to myself and ONLY for the purpose to share, teach and learn. I don't sell photos and I don't take credit for photos I find ALL OVER the internet. BUT when I start to see posts from people accusing me of stealing photos, being dishonest and patting myself on the back? That's it!!! Done! I've done a pretty fair job of asking permissions, giving proper credit and absolutely trying to 'get it right' with the information I post all under the umbrella of respect and rememberance for the veterans and their families. I don't know about you but when I see a negative post directed at the good intentions of anything I post? The thin skin gets thinner and I question why I even bother with this garbage.

The other very important aspect of what I've been doing? There's a few out there that have accused me of stealing photos from their websites, flickr accounts etc. who for the life of me cannot seem to understand that many, many times those very photos they host on their sites (including their own photoshop work) have been copied and saved to many other sites and flickr accounts. I then come along and copy and save a photo that I had no clue of it's original origin (other than I know for certain they are public domain photos as I rarely save a recently taken photo). I then get the original dude accusing me of stealing and taking credit for his photo? Nonsense! It's the way the www works. I've also had a guy recently get upset with me because he sent a few photos to a friend with instructions to NOT post them publicly anywhere as he was writing a book he wanted to include those photos in. The fella didn't follow his request and hosted them on his flickr account, I come along and copy, save and post here. The original guy gets upset with me? It certainly wasn't my fault. Then there's the TROLLS and that's a whole different issue.

All this has added up to a very simple .... NOT WORTH IT ANYMORE!!!!! which is heartbreaking to me and a shame as there's some really good folks here.

Anyone here who actually knows me, knows I'm a very honest, fair and generous guy who could give a sh*t about accolades, and I'm always here to help in anyway I possibly can to assist those who ask for help, and I enjoy it.
I will continue to do so, just not publicly anymore.

As for taking my toys home? Once again re-read the original post so as NOT to continue to be "absolutely confused" .... I have ALL the photos I ever posted on this site in very organized folders. ANYONE who has a need? Just ask away and it's yours. I still check PM's and e-mails. Everything I have is YOURS ANYTIME, but just like I stated NOT publicly anymore. Scott Rose knows very well how to contact me if he needs anything. That doesn't sound like taking my toys home to me.

Last edited by Mark Allen M on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

[fnqvmuch]

got it - not at all happy with this of course, but - thank you mark, thank you scott.

[Michel Lemieux]

and ONLY for the purpose to share, teach and learn.

And for this thanks Mark!

Sincerely........

[Scooby]

So Mark's Flickr accounts are private now as well?

Karma will bite the low-life in the tushy that caused all of this.