Warbird Information Exchange

I don't think it's you.

Something else that I noticed, Geneseo was particularly light on, was Canadians!
This airshow used to have a very significant Canadian component.
Canadian Harvard Aircraft Association and Aerobatic team. Great war flying Museum. Canadian Warplane Heritage. Vintage Wings of Canada. Carol Pilon (Thirdstrike wing walking) Andrew and Eric Boyd (father son Pitts team).Manfred Radius. These were all regular attendees.
I counted less than 10 C-registered aircraft.

Andy

Something must be keeping those Canucks away!!! Gotta fix that! I would think that the NWM would want one thing for their airshow. For it to be bigger and better each each. Not smaller. The attendance was actually pretty greta for a normal airshow at a normal airport. But Geneseo isn't a normal show. For many it's THE show. It's been a mecca for warbirds at one point, not too long ago. And it can be again. The powers at be need to want that too for it to happen.

_________________
Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

repost - delete

_________________
Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

The absence of regular-participants like Canadian Warplane Heritage and MAM were the main two factors in my decision not to make my first trip to Geneseo this year. I had been considering going based on the fact the CWH, MAM and VWOC are regular participants. These are three premier collections that I always like to travel to see if I have the chance. Just didn't seem worth it without their participation, plus I get to see the aircraft types represented at this year's show around my area quite regularly. The fact that the lineup was released so late didn't help, as it would have made getting time off from work much more difficult.

Still looks like it was a good show this year. The Harrier/FM-2 flight especially looked very neat and seeing P-51 fly-by's at dusk would have been very special to see. Scott Yoak's P-51 demo is one of the best in the business as well. I still have a trip to Geneseo on my warbird "bucket list" as a trip to take some day...

_________________
Matt

This is something else I've heard from multiple people. The fact that they begin the prep work for the show AND book the aircraft so late has been concern.

_________________
Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

This was a major bone of contention on my part, as well as the complete lack of shared information. Those in the know are not forthcoming with information which just causes more angst. When I heard that the show was shortened to 11-3, I immediately asked on the NWM board about the old format. Would we not be seeing the sets of L-Birds, T-6s, classics etc..., I got a response that "change is hard". Well it all turned out great in the end, we got the show we always have with the above included, and it ran like clockwork in a smaller slot than the 10-5 it used to be. Great job! But why the secrecy, be up front and forthcoming. We understand if a booked warbird doesn't show. It happens.

Most of the information I get is when I get to the field and speak to the NWM members I know directly. I was told that in the past few years the show has operated at a loss. This year they contracted with a PR firm to plan and publicize the airshow. Hence the Sea Harrier to help bring in the masses. It seems to have worked as noted by more sponsors and more coverage in the media. Whereas the previous advertising was a sign in front of the field and one in Wegmans, this year there were multiple news stories on the different local news outlets. It seems to have worked as on Saturday there was the most amount of cars arriving on that dirt road that I've not seen since the old shows. I heard on my scanner from one of the pilots, that at one point the traffic to get in was backed up to Wegmans (3 miles at least). So I'm hoping their gate take was good this year. Sunday crowds were lighter, but that's typical out in the sticks. (MAAM's WW2 weekend always sees lighter crowds on Sunday as well).

I'm hoping for an even better show in 2016.

An issue for the Canadian contingent may be the currency exchange rate. Anything done in the States would cost Canadians over 20% more in Canadian pesos than a year ago...

_________________
Neal Nurmi

---Wingman Photo---

Good point Neal.
In the past, the Historic Aircraft Group would accept Canadian dollars at par.
That was not the case with NWM. this year.

With the excellent weather, it looked to me like they had really good turn out. Probably made some money.
This kind of result will prove that the "marketer knows best".

From a pilot perspective (although admittedly my Tiger is not a huge draw, it is appreciated by more than just the hard core enthusiast. It is very accessible. I had lots of young people interested in her. Lots of kids sat in the cockpit. One young fellow came back at the end of the day to check it out again. He was great fun!)
I was not specifically invited. I tried several times to register via the website. I don't know if I ever succeeded. I never received a response E-mail. My friend forwarded me his info.
The website made no mention that the field would be wavered closed on arrival day. After over three hours of flying we were told to hold for "ten minutes". This turned in to over half an hour! We could not divert anywhere as Geneseo was our point of entry for customs purposes. Fortunately we had enough fuel. When we did arrive, our little Tigers were packed in with less than three feet between our wing tips. Unnerving for a machine with no brakes. I still haven't figured this one out.
The website listed my friend (same type of aircraft) as a static display. I made the assumption that I was as well. Saturday morning one of the pilots I know asked "why weren't you in the briefing?" I didn't think they wanted us in the air display.

To sum up, I agree with CH2Tdriver. Communication was either non existent or too late.

Andy Scott

I'd like to add to Andy's comments above about parking the aircraft so close together. Not only was it inconvenient, it also posed some operational and safety concerns.

Aside from taxiing an aircraft into close proximity to another with no brakes and a tail skid for steering (better you than me, my friend!), once the aircraft were parked, there wasn't much room to allow for the flow of people who came out to have a look. This lead to the possibility of "hangar rash" type damage. Everyone who stopped by to look at the Moths were very respectful and careful, but accidents do happen. I'd feel awful if a camera bag inadvertently poked a hole in some fabric, or if someone's kid split their head open on a trailing edge (I've done that. It sucks). If there was just a few more feet to walk in between the aircraft this would be much less of a concern.

Also on the Sunday, I was enlisted to flip the propeller through by hand on one of the Tiger Moths to get it started. The other Tiger Moth was already running, and of course, parked very close. I wouldn't say that I'm "comfortable" around running aircraft and to be honest, I don't ever want to be. I've reached the level of "respect" and I'll keep it right there. A false sense of urgency is a contributing factor to many accidents involving ground crew, so I like to take my time and always be aware of my surroundings and escape routes. In this case, I had to concern myself with two nearby turning propellers rather than just one, which really should have been the case. If it became necessary to attend to the crew in either aircraft, I would've had to squeeze between the wingtips to get to them, always keeping in mind where those props were.

In the end, it was a routine start up and taxi out. However, I feel that there were a few extra concerns that arose from the aircraft being parked too close that really shouldn't have come up.

In aviation, there's enough risk to manage as it is. Why add more?

Great to read both the pros and cons of the 2015 Geneseo Airshow....all very constructive stuff....hoping the show did indeed make some $ over the 3 days. I spend the better part of Friday afternoon and all day Saturday at the event and had a great time. This was I think my 10yr and still I have to say I still love that minimal barrier approach between fans and the planes.

I also really missed the Canadian warbirds this year but hope to see them back again.

And the CAD$ was accepted at par for both my Friday and Saturday entry fees by the gals & guys at the main gate...cheers

Well we sure wanted to be there with the P-40 and the Harvard. The issue wasn't the exchange rate.

In Canada, unusual aircraft like the fighters are certified under a Special C of A for Limited flight operations. If we want to go to the USA, we need a permission letter from the FAA (because there is no airworthiness standard in the States that exactly matches). When we got the letter, it bluntly stated that there must not be Hire, Reward, or Remuneration.

Our plan had been to encourage people to join VWoC, then upgrade their membership to a point that would entitle them to a flight in the P-40 or the Harvard. In fact we had hoped to do these flights as a Formation, thus providing a fantastic photo opportunity.

But when that letter arrived, we were scuppered. Somebody needs to cover the costs.

The good folks at Geneseo did everything they could, including asking the FAA for clarification, and pointing out that we are not a commercial operation, and do NOT "sell rides". But the FAA made it quite clear -- thall shalt not.

So, since the airshow organization could not pay our show-up costs, and there are no freebees for this sort of thing, we had to cancel.

Too bad. I love Geneseo and was really looking forward to it!

And we were indeed planning to offer Cockpit Briefings, with a rated pilot on the wing explaining the workings of the aircraft.

Oh well... we have other opportunities in other places later this year. On Aug 15 at Hamilton you can fly in the P-40 or P-51 in formation with the Lancaster -- every spare seat is available. And that's something you can do nowhere else in the world. Also at Ottawa/Gatineau in Sept.

Dave

Great pictures Bill and Chris - thank you for sharing

Chris, I'm glad you had a great time! I too am very surprised that geneseo is getting smaller with attending aircraft. I do understand the priorities of money,time, aircraft maintenance as contributors of aircraft not coming. But just being there is great with wonderful people. My only question at hand is why did you travel that distance from home to see this when the great New England air show had much more and was 5 hours closer? It's obviously your choice to see anything you want at any time, it just would have been nice to see you at westover. It seems that the line up was some what close to geneseos. I believe the westover warbird line up was-

Fg-1d
3- mustangs
B-25
B-17
C-47
Ac-47
Tbm avenger
Harland's pt-23
Snj-2 skytypers

I may be missing a couple.

_________________
" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

Seems that warbird attendance at the show has been relatively flat the last few years, typically around 50 total warbirds. The number of 'main attraction' aircraft has seemed to gone down some. The constant factor why the show is attractive though is the access to aircraft, clean background for photos and the amount of warbird flying at the show.

I'm sure we all wish for teh shows of the late 80s and 90s to return but fuel costs are substantially higher as I'm sure everything else is. I honestly don't know if any show today could ever match those. I look at Thunder Over Michigan being one of the top warbird shows now and I don't think any of those can even come close to the shear number of warbirds that the Wings of Eagles shows used to have.

I have to say (and to balance my gripe about the tight parking), although there wasn't a huge number of warbirds in attendance, the quality of the displays was excellent. In particular, the acrobatic routines were lots of fun to watch.