LSFM PB4Y Privateer SOLD!!!

[TheBigBadGman]

Out of curiosity, has no-one asked the National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola?

I mean no disrespect for Pima as it is a top-notch museum, but I have always found it curious that they have the only surviving PBM Mars. With this sale, they will soon have an almost completely restored Privateer. Both of these are extraordinarily important to the history of Naval aviation and yet are not visible in Pensacola.

I realize that the NNAM has a Privateer but they have a poor track record of always favoring smaller restorations to larger ones (likewise, their Privateer is out on that flightline out of public view). Still, with the Martin Mars coming down this fall (in theory), the NNAM is supposed to be building a new hangar. Putting the Privateer and Martin Mars alongside would be a nice touch - maybe they could trade some of their flightline for it... Hell, I'd love to see the NNAM put all their flying boats in the same room.

I just ask out of curiosity. Pima is a fine museum and a great home to the old bird. Congrats to Pima.

[Mike]

The NNAM restored their Privateer relatively recently. However it has deteriorated markedly (at least cosmetically) since being parked back out on the ramp in the salt air and under the Florida sun.

[bilwor]

Pima has a PBM-5A Mariner not a Mars.

[marine air]

IT seems to have been an unfortunate but necessary business decision. They PB4Y was insured for some amount, say $500k. IT could be written off as a total loss. They could buy it back but then have to spend a couple milion re-restoring it and finishing it. They chose not to put another couple million into it. The folks that own the PB4Y at Oshkosh are doing it exactly right. THey are keeping their aircraft in flyable condition while restoring it. IT provides a lot of fun and pride and eventually might get more authentic over time. The LSFM PB4Y reminds me of the Beaufighter project and the P-61 project. Thousands of hours and millions of dollars have been spent and it still hasn't flown.
Lesson learned: an airworthy aircraft is worth more money and can be flown away from danger if parked near the coast.

[Warbird Kid]

Lesson learned: an airworthy aircraft is worth more money and can be flown away from danger if parked near the coast.

Yes which makes me wonder why that plane languished for so long when it seemed (from the outside) that it was so close to flying. That they could have been flying her years ago, working on her and updating her as she went. Imagine Thunderbird and the Privateer in formation. Giving rides like the Collings Foundation across the country. What a sight!

And now just like that with a wall of water, two more Consolidated airframes are written off from the list. To never fly again as it seems. It appears clear to me that the Liberator airframe and all it's variants are doomed to stay extremely rare, especially in the air.

[jamesintucson]

James, will they be placed indoors or permanent outdoor display?

The PBY is scheduled to go into the building we have under construction right now. The Privateer will be outdoors for now but that could change in the next couple of years.

James

[bluesky23]

OK..... Now, can anyone tell me if the LSFM has something in mind to fill the big void that will appear after the PBY and PB4Y have left the building are gone to Pima? Seems something should also be in the works regarding that. Also, is this the sign of the times for other museums that have or might have reached a point where restorations and/or acquisitions have become "No longer cost effective?"

[Neal Nurmi]

Just thought I'd throw in an old PB4Y shot or two...

[Warbirdnerd]

OK..... Now, can anyone tell me if the LSFM has something in mind to fill the big void that will appear after the PBY and PB4Y have left the building are gone to Pima? Seems something should also be in the works regarding that. Also, is this the sign of the times for other museums that have or might have reached a point where restorations and/or acquisitions have become "No longer cost effective?"

There MAY some pending litigation from the Galveston Gal crash. It seems the Feds had issues with how they were operating their ride program...

[Mike]

Not to mention a pending move of the entire operation to a new location

[jamesintucson]

I was informed recently that the Lone Star Flight Museum had donated it's PB4Y Privateer "Charlie 30" to the Pima Co. Air Museum. Something about the hurricane doing more damage to it than they were willing to fix to continue it's restoration to flight status.

Whereas I find this to be both disheartening and.....unbelievable, I figured I'd throw it out for others (who might actually know for sure) to either confirm or dispel the information as true.

So, how 'bout it? Anyone know?....

Pima has purchased both the Privateer and the Catalina from the Lone Star Flight Museum. They will be moving here later this year.

James

James,

Couple other questions come to mind:

Did the purchase of the Privateer include the two top turrets that were being displayed in anticipation of installation?

and...Given that the Privateer will not be flying, do you guys anticipate simply reassembling the airframe, installing said turrets, and painting the airframe for display immediately upon receiving the airframe from TX? Or will it take a back-burner to other projects?

The Privateer should include everything to put it into the patrol bomber configuration. The plane will be reassembled as soon as it gets here. I'm hoping to get it into the paint shop quickly after that but several projects for the new building will need to be finished first. With luck they will all be done before the Privateer gets here in the fall.

[TheBigBadGman]

Pima has a PBM-5A Mariner not a Mars.

I know.

Freudian slip. Been thinking about that Mars lately.

Still, I think you get what I was trying to ask.

[Warbirdnerd]

Not to mention a pending move of the entire operation to a new location

U.S. taxpayers are helping with that too:
http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morn ... -from.html

[SaxMan]

Yes which makes me wonder why that plane languished for so long when it seemed (from the outside) that it was so close to flying. That they could have been flying her years ago, working on her and updating her as she went. Imagine Thunderbird and the Privateer in formation. Giving rides like the Collings Foundation across the country. What a sight!

And now just like that with a wall of water, two more Consolidated airframes are written off from the list. To never fly again as it seems. It appears clear to me that the Liberator airframe and all it's variants are doomed to stay extremely rare, especially in the air.

I think it's the old warbird restoration adage "90% done with 90% to go". I wondered if the folks with the airworthy PB4Y would have been interested in installing the turrets, particularly those odd (and rare) Erco side blisters in their bird.

The Liberator, in general, has a couple strikes against it: First, unlike the B-17s, few, if any, were put into storage to avoid the mass scrappings...probably more PB4Ys survived the mass scrappings than all the other Liberator variants combined. A good chunk of the surviving Liberators were ex Indian Air Force birds. Secondly, the Liberator just doesn't seem to generate the kind of passion with the general public, and even maybe within the warbird movement that the B-17 does. We're not seeing any active Liberator restorations in the U.S., and there's at least 3 Fortress restorations to airworthy going on. That's a pity, because the Lib is certainly important as the most produced American warplane in World War II, not to mention its service over the skies of Ploesti, Gotha, Borneo and Rabaul, among just a few of the plane's exploits.

[NathanT24]

I was so hoping the PB4Y-2 would fly again, I love the Naval WW2 aircraft and that being almost restored to the way it was, was amazing! Oh well my dreams blown, hopefully they pick some other Warbirds up.