A-36 at Lackland?

[Snake45]

Was there ever an A-36 on display at Lackland AFB?

Last night on one of my gun boards, someone said he remembered seeing an A-36 at Lackland, and "thought it was a P-51 until I read the display placcard."

I know Lackland had/has a rare P-51H and at least one F-82, but I've never heard of an Allison Mustang on display there.

Thinking he might have the airplane right but the base wrong, I checked Warbird Registry and couldn't find record of any A-36 or P-51A ever being displayed at any USAF base except of course the USAF Museum in Dayton.

Any ideas?

[JohnB]

If there ever was one, it was a long time ago.
Certainly not in "modern" times.

[Lynn Allen]

They had a P-51H for a long time, Ober do you remember??

[Snake45]

They had a P-51H for a long time, Ober do you remember??

Yes, I remember, and have walkaround pics of it. When I saw it it was painted as John C. Meyer's D.

[JohnB]

I recall the "H".
I saw it not that long ago...and I laughed at it pretending to be a "D".

But Lackland always had odd paint...a T-38 painted as a F-5 (complete with back canopy painted over), A UH-1B pretending to be an "F" (different engine & cowl), a side by side B-57 painted like the "B"s used in Vietnam.

[Snake45]

The fellow posted again, saying he was there in 1971. Says he has pics, and will try to scan and post them.

There used to be a small museum (I understand there is a much larger one there now) near where the airplanes were displayed. There wasn't a whole lot in it, but I remember there were a couple of large-scale wooden wind tunnel models. I think one of them might have been the B-15 or B-19 or one of those oddball big prewar bombers. I'm wondering if one of the WT models could have been A-36, and that's what he's remembering?

Anyone else remember that little museum?

[RickH]

Yep. The jets were parked around it outside and there was a noncovered Jenny inside.

[Snake45]

Yep. The jets were parked around it outside and there was a noncovered Jenny inside.

Yes, that was it! I thought I remembered a naked biplane of some kind (or perhaps just the fuselage).

It might have been in a Quonset hut, I don't remember. But yes, the jets and the P-51H and P-47N and F-82 were on display around it. (Come to think of it, I have several pictures of those airplanes, so maybe the building is in the background of some of those.)

[JohnB]

It was NOT a Quonset hut...after all Lackland was an AFB, and the Air Force has higher standards.

It was a WWII-era single story frame building...probably some converted office or HQ bldg.
IIRC, a straight-wing F-84 was outside. The P-51 was on the parade ground near the F-82...where the plastic P-38 is now.
They were still using it in 1981 when I graduated from OTS nearby.
Yes, they have a new museum, I was there 11 years ago when my nephew graduated from basic.
I can't recall if the Jenny was still there. I do recall the wooden wind tunnel models, I believe it was the B-19, but I don't recall a A-36 model. BTWL: was there even an A-36 wind tunnel model since it was so close to Mustangs of the period?

[Snake45]

It was NOT a Quonset hut...after all Lackland was an AFB, and the Air Force has higher standards.

It was a WWII-era single story frame building...probably some converted office or HQ bldg.
IIRC, a straight-wing F-84 was outside. The P-51 was on the parade ground near the F-82...where the plastic P-38 is now.
They were still using it in 1981 when I graduated from OTS nearby.
Yes, they have a new museum, I was there 11 years ago when my nephew graduated from basic.
I can't recall if the Jenny was still there. I do recall the wooden wind tunnel models, I believe it was the B-19, but I don't recall a A-36 model. BTWL: was there even an A-36 wind tunnel model since it was so close to Mustangs of the period?

When I was there in '72, the only airplanes on the parade ground were the B-17 and the B-24--the real one, not the plastic copy.

There was no P-38 anywhere then, plastic or real. Around the museum building, besides those already discussed, were an F-86, TF-102, F-105(B?) with a recon nose, I think maybe an F-100 and F-104, maybe a T-33, and almost certainly an F-84F. There were several F-84Fs all over the base, apparently new. Most of the "new" barracks over on the other side of the base (I went through the old WWII barracks) had an F-84F in front of them. I don't remember any straight-wing 84 anywhere. There were a couple Loons (V-1s) on display around the base, too.

One day riding on the base bus I poked my nose up out of my usual book or magazine and saw several parked airplanes on a hardstand a couple hundred yards away. I learned later that this was an SP training area. I seem to remember one of the airplanes parked there being an F-80, but as I said they were far away and I only saw them once, for a few seconds.

ETA: Almost forgot (how could I have?) the bright red "pinball" P-63. Got pictures of that one, too.

[JohnB]

In the 70s, F-84Fs were the training aircraft for the (then) APs. Later, they were F-105s, now F-16s.
The 105s were replaced 10 (?) years ago, and they found good homes.

I'd like to know what happened to the recon 105.
Also, in the 80s, the XT-37 was there...it featured a clear plastic nose with an enclosed landing light. Last Time I saw it, they painted it to look like a production T-37. There was also a F-94 prototype there. there was a F-102 at the OTS complex.

There were a number of aircraft on the parade ground in the late 70s...transports (C-119,121, C-7), an Albatross (sold to D. Greenmeyer, IIRC) , a B-25 and 26. A C-131 in front of Wilfred Hall hospital....along with the aforementioned B-17 "Heaven's Above". The fiberglass B-24 looks as good as the real one...having seen both. And now there is an SR-71.

[Lynn Allen]

P-38 is a plastic on a pole deluxe and its over at Kelly AFB and the B-25 is the original B-25 from the CAF...

[Lynn Allen]

Doug Jeanes would know as well as he marched around there back in the day...

[Snake45]

Just dug out my 1971 edition of Veteran and Vintage Aircraft, a worldwide listing. In addition to the ones discussed above, Lackland was listed as having:

*Two F-80s
*The F-86 I mentioned above is an A model
*YF-94
*F-100C
*F-89B prototype
*F-84C (John, you were right--either it wasn't there in '72 or I just forgot it)
*JF-105B (?), SN given 540105 (spurious SN?)
*XT-37

No mention of the TF-102, which I very clearly remember. I'm pretty sure I have at least one good photo of the recon nose of the 105B. I don't remember the F-89 or T-37. I'll have to dig out my pics and see what I've got. I know I took a LOT of the P-51H, P-47N, and F-82, as I was interested in modeling them.

ETA: Found my pics. They were heavy on the three I just mentioned, plus the F-86 and P-63. T-33 in the background of a couple pics. The F-100C and RF-105B were both painted in SEA camo--got a couple pics of those. Evidently I didn't think the TF-102 photogenic enough to waste film on, but I remember it clearly. Pretty sure I'd have snapped a couple pics of a straight-wing F-84 if it had been there at the time.

[Clifford Bossie]

Just dug out my 1971 edition of Veteran and Vintage Aircraft, a worldwide listing. In addition to the ones discussed above, Lackland was listed as having:

*Two F-80s
*The F-86 I mentioned above is an A model
*YF-94
*F-100C
*F-89B prototype
*F-84C (John, you were right--either it wasn't there in '72 or I just forgot it)
*JF-105B (?), SN given 540105 (spurious SN?)
*XT-37

No mention of the TF-102, which I very clearly remember. I'm pretty sure I have at least one good photo of the recon nose of the 105B. I don't remember the F-89 or T-37. I'll have to dig out my pics and see what I've got. I know I took a LOT of the P-51H, P-47N, and F-82, as I was interested in modeling them.

ETA: Found my pics. They were heavy on the three I just mentioned, plus the F-86 and P-63. T-33 in the background of a couple pics. The F-100C and RF-105B were both painted in SEA camo--got a couple pics of those. Evidently I didn't think the TF-102 photogenic enough to waste film on, but I remember it clearly. Pretty sure I'd have snapped a couple pics of a straight-wing F-84 if it had been there at the time.

I believe the F-89B is at the Texas Air Museum at Sinson Field.

The JF-105B (RF-105B) is still at Lackland. As is the F-86A.

The Hun is an F-100A.

There is also an F-4B posing as an F-4C.

The F-84Fs are gone, as are the F-105s. Don't know about the Tub (TF-102).