Need Your Help & Expertise
Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:10 am
Hey Guys,
I would normally post this request in the warbird "parts" section of WIX Forum but figured I'd probably get a better response here since the hanger appears to be the main forum on this site.
As some of you might know I've been trying to acquire ball turret parts for quite some time with the hope of some day restoring an operational turret for static display. Parts are extremely difficult to come by and the few that are out there appear to be "underground" in the collectons of warbird enthusiasts. Since you guys know the warbird community inside & out and have countless network contacts, I was hoping you could help me find (or point me in the right direction) internal ball turret parts or "guts". I also know that Bill Stanczak and the other folks restoring "Desert Rat" are in need of internal parts as well for their turret. According to Bill they have about 3/4's of a shell and few internal parts. If I can acquire any extra parts, I would like to try and help Bill out as much as possible.
I'm currently trying to locate: AZIMUTH END BELL GEARING ASSEMBLY, AZIMUTH PINION GEARING, MAIN SWITCH BOX, GUN MOUNTING BRACKETS, HAND CRANKS, TURRET POSITION INDICATOR, ELECTRIC MOTOR (have both hydraulic pumps), GUNSIGHT MOUNTING BRACKET, and GUNNER'S SEAT.
Thanks in advance for your help and a special thanks to Don Keller for helping me finally acquire a ball turret parts catalog. I was beginning to doubt the existance of this manual until you guys pointed me to the right direction. Thanks again...you guys are truly the best!!!
John
I would normally post this request in the warbird "parts" section of WIX Forum but figured I'd probably get a better response here since the hanger appears to be the main forum on this site.
As some of you might know I've been trying to acquire ball turret parts for quite some time with the hope of some day restoring an operational turret for static display. Parts are extremely difficult to come by and the few that are out there appear to be "underground" in the collectons of warbird enthusiasts. Since you guys know the warbird community inside & out and have countless network contacts, I was hoping you could help me find (or point me in the right direction) internal ball turret parts or "guts". I also know that Bill Stanczak and the other folks restoring "Desert Rat" are in need of internal parts as well for their turret. According to Bill they have about 3/4's of a shell and few internal parts. If I can acquire any extra parts, I would like to try and help Bill out as much as possible.
I'm currently trying to locate: AZIMUTH END BELL GEARING ASSEMBLY, AZIMUTH PINION GEARING, MAIN SWITCH BOX, GUN MOUNTING BRACKETS, HAND CRANKS, TURRET POSITION INDICATOR, ELECTRIC MOTOR (have both hydraulic pumps), GUNSIGHT MOUNTING BRACKET, and GUNNER'S SEAT.
Thanks in advance for your help and a special thanks to Don Keller for helping me finally acquire a ball turret parts catalog. I was beginning to doubt the existance of this manual until you guys pointed me to the right direction. Thanks again...you guys are truly the best!!!
John
Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:42 am
You are entirely welcome, John. Glad to hear that Don was able to help you out. I sure hope you asked him about any ball turret bits & pieces he might have lying around while you were on the phone!
Now, have you (and the rest of the ball-turret community) considered making new replacements for the extremely rare parts? In other words, have you pursued finding the engineering drawings for this turret? This could become a faily cost-effective endeavor if enough fellows need the same bits.
Just thinking out loud...I'll go back to my corner now.
Now, have you (and the rest of the ball-turret community) considered making new replacements for the extremely rare parts? In other words, have you pursued finding the engineering drawings for this turret? This could become a faily cost-effective endeavor if enough fellows need the same bits.
Just thinking out loud...I'll go back to my corner now.
Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:04 pm
Hi Dan,
Thanks again for your help in putting me in touch with Don Keller. As far as other turret parts, he said that he might have a few connections for other turret parts. About the only other thing he has is a B-24 fire cut-off cam which is in pretty rough shape, but I've agreed to purchase it anyway.
You're not kidding when you you said this could be a very pricy endeaver! Bill has mentioned to me in the past that we could possibly split the costs of any ball turret recastings. I know it's been done before and it is very expensive. You also have the shrinkage problem on a recast which causes problems when incorporating original parts.
I've talked with Harland Avezzie in Westfield, MA who is probably one of the experts when it comes to turret restorations. He was working on recast for one of Don Brooks' projects. I'm not quite sure if it had ALL of the internal parts included, but that project was selling for about $24,000!
I've talked with others out there like Jim Harley who works on the Collings Foundation projects. He mentioned that they are trying to get their ball turrets (for the B-17 & B-24) fully operational. This seems to be a trend with other aircraft as well, which may also explain the scarcity of internal parts.
John
Thanks again for your help in putting me in touch with Don Keller. As far as other turret parts, he said that he might have a few connections for other turret parts. About the only other thing he has is a B-24 fire cut-off cam which is in pretty rough shape, but I've agreed to purchase it anyway.
You're not kidding when you you said this could be a very pricy endeaver! Bill has mentioned to me in the past that we could possibly split the costs of any ball turret recastings. I know it's been done before and it is very expensive. You also have the shrinkage problem on a recast which causes problems when incorporating original parts.
I've talked with Harland Avezzie in Westfield, MA who is probably one of the experts when it comes to turret restorations. He was working on recast for one of Don Brooks' projects. I'm not quite sure if it had ALL of the internal parts included, but that project was selling for about $24,000!
I've talked with others out there like Jim Harley who works on the Collings Foundation projects. He mentioned that they are trying to get their ball turrets (for the B-17 & B-24) fully operational. This seems to be a trend with other aircraft as well, which may also explain the scarcity of internal parts.
John
Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:41 pm
Thanks for the tips Col....I'll try to get in touch with them and see if they're willing to part with any spares.
John
John
Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:18 pm
I guess I'm part of the "undergound" 
Off the top of my head, I have the following:
Early style control unit w/ cork handles (mint condition, I'm quite fond of it!)
Complete elevation gear assy.
Both hand cranks
Hyd. reservoir (maybe it's just me, but this was the only one I've ever seen available)
Seems like I'm forgetting something...
Also have a data plate that came out of Kingman, Chuck Baisden (of AVG fame) gave that one to me.
Off the top of my head, I have the following:
Early style control unit w/ cork handles (mint condition, I'm quite fond of it!)
Complete elevation gear assy.
Both hand cranks
Hyd. reservoir (maybe it's just me, but this was the only one I've ever seen available)
Seems like I'm forgetting something...
Also have a data plate that came out of Kingman, Chuck Baisden (of AVG fame) gave that one to me.
Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:33 pm
B29 Gunner,
Glad to hear you're part of the "underground network"...LOL!
I have the elevation power gearing assembly but do need the crank handles. I am also in the process of purchasing the hand control unit from a guy and am just waiting for it to get shipped out.
The Hyd. reservoir....I believe this is the hydraulic breather tank which connects to both of the Vickers hydraulic pumps? If so, I could use this piece as well. As for the data plate...where was this attached to on the turret?
If you'd be interested in selling the hand cranks & hydraulic breather tank, I'd greatly appreciate it...feel free to send me a private message so we can work out a possible deal.
Thanks again for your help!
John
Glad to hear you're part of the "underground network"...LOL!
I have the elevation power gearing assembly but do need the crank handles. I am also in the process of purchasing the hand control unit from a guy and am just waiting for it to get shipped out.
The Hyd. reservoir....I believe this is the hydraulic breather tank which connects to both of the Vickers hydraulic pumps? If so, I could use this piece as well. As for the data plate...where was this attached to on the turret?
If you'd be interested in selling the hand cranks & hydraulic breather tank, I'd greatly appreciate it...feel free to send me a private message so we can work out a possible deal.
Thanks again for your help!
John
Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:16 am
jpeters wrote:The Hyd. reservoir....I believe this is the hydraulic breather tank which connects to both of the Vickers hydraulic pumps? If so, I could use this piece as well. As for the data plate...where was this attached to on the turret?
Yeah the Hyd. reservoir is the little green tank that held the hyd. fluid, it looks a lot like the hyd. reservoir for the B-24 tail turret, only smaller. I'll snap a pick if I can remember (and find a ladder!)
Not really looking to sell any of these parts
But I think that's really the problem w/ ball turret parts, and why they're so hard to find. It seems like everyone I've ever talked turrets to, the ball turret is always number 1 on their wish list. And what happens is, all these guys hoard these parts, in the hopes of one day maybe needing them "in case" they happen to find a ball turret to restore! I will concede that there probably still are some ball turrets floating around out there under the radar, in junkyards and what not, but the chances of you or me finding them for practically nothing is pretty slim. Those days are defnitely over, but stranger things have happened!
There's a guy on eBay, user ID is "depot41"...talk to him, but I have a feeling you already have! Someone once told me he had a ball turret he was trying to sell for $50K!
Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:25 am
B29 Gunner,
You hit the nail on the head when you said that collectors out there are hoarding parts in the hopes of some day finding a turret to restore. I definately can't blame them and would have to consider myself one of those "hoarders."
I think I've purchased some items before from this person on ebay you mentioned. He has some unique items and I'll send him a message to see what he has. $50,000 is a bit steep...even for a ball turret. Most of the prices I've seen tossed out there for a fully restored ball turret hovered around $30,000-$35,000...but then again??!
Thanks again for all of your help!
John
You hit the nail on the head when you said that collectors out there are hoarding parts in the hopes of some day finding a turret to restore. I definately can't blame them and would have to consider myself one of those "hoarders."
I think I've purchased some items before from this person on ebay you mentioned. He has some unique items and I'll send him a message to see what he has. $50,000 is a bit steep...even for a ball turret. Most of the prices I've seen tossed out there for a fully restored ball turret hovered around $30,000-$35,000...but then again??!
Thanks again for all of your help!
John
Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:26 am
John,
Just to let you know, I'm still working on the Emerson Turret Division "parts pile" that we talked about. I spoke with the owner of the stuff today as well as the new employee he has charged with "checking out" our Museum's offer. I should know something next week. I'll keep you informed as soon as I hear something. If we do wind up with this inventory, I'll need your help and the help of other WIXersto find a home for these parts.
Albert
Just to let you know, I'm still working on the Emerson Turret Division "parts pile" that we talked about. I spoke with the owner of the stuff today as well as the new employee he has charged with "checking out" our Museum's offer. I should know something next week. I'll keep you informed as soon as I hear something. If we do wind up with this inventory, I'll need your help and the help of other WIXersto find a home for these parts.
Albert
Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:18 am
jpeters wrote:
I think I've purchased some items before from this person on ebay you mentioned. He has some unique items and I'll send him a message to see what he has. $50,000 is a bit steep...even for a ball turret. Most of the prices I've seen tossed out there for a fully restored ball turret hovered around $30,000-$35,000...but then again??!
A bit steep, indeed! If I recall correctly, suposedly the turret was still in the original crate
Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:25 am
Here ya go John. The ball turret tank is on the right, B-24 tail turret on the left.
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Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:34 am
astixjr wrote:John,
Just to let you know, I'm still working on the Emerson Turret Division "parts pile" that we talked about. I spoke with the owner of the stuff today as well as the new employee he has charged with "checking out" our Museum's offer. I should know something next week. I'll keep you informed as soon as I hear something. If we do wind up with this inventory, I'll need your help and the help of other WIXersto find a home for these parts.
Albert
I'd be interested in some Emerson nose parts! What kind of stuff are you acquiring? Speaking of which, I just happened to take this pic tonight for a friend, might as well post it here since we're talking Emersons!
A pair of Emerson nose turret switch boxes. One NOS, the other one, well....
Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:02 am
I've been working on this deal for about six months. I'm pretty sure I'm close to finishing it but I feel like a dog chasing a car, I'm not sure what I'm going to do if our museum winds up with this pile of stuff. We focus most of our energy on antique aircraft, in particular, stuff built here in St. Louis. I have always wanted to display an Emerson built turret in our museum but there are no complete turrets in this inventory. It's a room filled with 225+ 55 gallon drums of assorted Emerson turret parts. It's leftover small parts and tooling from the factory, mostly WWII Emerson, Martin, and Sperry stuff (some items still have NOS tags) but also lots of P2V turret parts and even a pile of Emerson 128 bow turret bits. I would like to see this stuff go to flying aircraft projects and collectors but my primary competition is a Chinese scrap buyer who would very much like to melt the stuff down. In the end, I don't care who gets the stuff, just so long as it's not a smelting operation. I'll post some photos if it all works out. Keep your fingers crossed.
Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:54 am
Hi Albert,
It's great to hear the wonderful news about the turret parts!!! I know the last time we spoke things weren't looking so good on your dealings with the owner of this stuff.
Good luck and keep us informed!
John
It's great to hear the wonderful news about the turret parts!!! I know the last time we spoke things weren't looking so good on your dealings with the owner of this stuff.
Good luck and keep us informed!
John
Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:58 am
B29Gunner wrote:jpeters wrote:
I think I've purchased some items before from this person on ebay you mentioned. He has some unique items and I'll send him a message to see what he has. $50,000 is a bit steep...even for a ball turret. Most of the prices I've seen tossed out there for a fully restored ball turret hovered around $30,000-$35,000...but then again??!
A bit steep, indeed! If I recall correctly, suposedly the turret was still in the original crate
B-29Gunner,
I'm wondering if this is the turret that was purchased by Don Brooks not too long ago for one of his projects. Harland Avezzie was working on a recast ball turret project for Don. Supposedly Don acquired a complete original ball turret from somewhere and therefore did not need the recast turret anymore which is why it went up for sale.
John