Help Needed: C-47 and Horsas of Market Garden Operation

[Pathfinder]

Thanks, Mark.

These types of micro histories can become addictive. I just found that the pilot Cecil H. Dawkins was originally a Sgt. Pilot, and that for the events of 21SEP44 he received the Distinguished Service Cross.

[kornik69]

Hello Gentlemen

I am back in Poland and between preparations of the new baby's room, I am still looking for markings of polish drop C-47's and Horsas. The Horsa, which I will probably build is already researched and almost identified but the C-47 still has not been selected. I am glad that there are so many of you interested in the subject.

Since the whole book is about the Engineer Company you have one heck of a reference. Add to that the names on the loading manifest in the MACR and you have enough leads to last a lifetime of research. For the yanks reading this the Engineer Company was the unit who, over two nights, ferried members of the Polish Brigade across the Rhine in rubber boats as depicted in "A Bridge Too Far".

With all respect to Cornelius Ryan and his book, but unfortunately in the movie the participation and fighting of Polish paratroopers was incredibly stripped down and the viewer might get the wrong impression that the Poles just mindlessly died during the drop and Rhine crossing. This is very unfair. Over the years, Sosabowski's opponents tried to downplay the contribution of Poles to the operation, blaming General Sosabowski for the failure of the operation. Only the efforts of the Dutch themselves and people like Gen. Urquart helped the Poles regain their good name. Liberation of Driel by the polish paratroopers , members of polish antitank artillery squads hunting tanks in the streets of Oosterbeek and fierce defence of Stationsweg are only few examples of what Poles did there to help their british brothers in arms.

If it comes to the literature on the Polish brigade I recommend:

- George F. Cholewczynski "The Poles Apart",
- Gen. Stanislaw Sosabowski "Freely I served" and
- Karel Margry - "Market Garden Then and Now" vol.II

There are some great books written in polish but they don't have their english editions. My good friend, historian Piotr Witkowski which is a specialist on Polish Airborne and Special Forces is currently writting a book describing and showing the uniforms, equipment and vehicles used by the Polish Brigade in England and Holland. The first volume (uniforms, equipment and markings) is currently being translated to english and the second volume (weapons and vehicles) is being finalized in polish with english edition planned soon. I have assisted him a bit with this book but the amount of material on C-47's that carried Poles is small and the chapter about them is still not complete.

Best Wishes
Kornel

[Pathfinder]

Kornel--

Too true about the ill treatment of Sosabowski.

I hope you received the extracts of the MACR. It appears to be quite detailed for a 30-odd page book.

DB

[kornik69]

Thank you Dave. Yes I received it but still cannot find any info on chalk number of this plane.

I need to admit that after the polish Sherman Mk.III tank of the battle of Monte Cassino (5 years of research, 1 year of making the model) this is the most severe modelling project I have made in my all model maker carrier. I think the next model I choose from my collection, will be much less challenging.

Best Wishes
Kornel

[Pathfinder]

Kornel--

My reference to 'the Book' above was to THE WRONG SIDE OF THE RIVER. Somehow I deleted that.....but do you have it? I truly believe that there is more info in that book than one might expect. Even the online extract tells us that the chalk numbers of the three plane flight containing 339 were 41,42 and 43. I believe we will be able to extrapolate the actual number with a bit of study.

[Pathfinder]

Here is another narrative of a 310/315 pilot describing the men and events of 21SEP44 including Plane 339. Note the color photo showing WHITE 4A nose code, and what appears to be yellow tail numbers.

http://www.kilroywashere.org/003-Pages/ ... eyRoss.htm


The E&E Reports for the crew of 339:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/5556936 ... 20E%202305

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/5556935 ... 20E%202304

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/5556934 ... 20E%202303

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/5556933 ... 20E%202302

[patelie]

Your answers made the whole case a lot more clear but I still cannot tell for sure which color of code letters I should use (white or yellow).

Squadron code and tail letter were White or Light Grey. Never seen a color picture with a squadron code yellow.
References to squadron codes in MACRs are also Grey
Serial number was yellow.
Of course there are exceptions. I have seen a tail letter in light blue and also serial number in red (not serial leader or wave leader or pathfinder) ie.42-92868 which was cn 16 in serial 22 on d-day or 42-92879 which was cn 7 in serial 26

Fo me, to paint a squadron code in yellow is an error


Question for Dave : Have you noticed, for a red serial number, an aircraft other than a C-47A-xx-DK? (I mean built in another plant than Oklahoma city)

[patelie]

10: The question now becomes "What is the provenance that 841 carried Poles to Arnhem?" We know that the mission departed England, but as pointed out above 25 of 27 planes sortied on the 21st turned back. Are you suggesting that 841 was one of the two planes that joined another serial and dropped their troops at Arnhem? The AMC bio does not mention the sortie of the 21st. Right now none of those questions can be answered with any authority.

11: I would suggest that "Turf and Sport Special" did sortie on 21SEP44 with members of 2Bn 1st Ind Polish Brigade, and was one of 25 a/c that aborted due to weather.
With Respect,

Dave
To answer your question, here is an extract of "Bing" Wood diary (CC in 841) for this period
".................
September 19, 44
A Polish drop was all set up, but at the last minute it was called because of bad weather. Last
night I didn't get into the sack till twelve o'clock because I was out on the line helping the Poles
load the plane.
The jumpmaster speaks a little English. He told me they have been training in Scotland and are
really anxious to go. Most of them have a burning desire to avenge atrocities committed by both
Germans and Russians against their families and friends. It makes no difference to them which one
they fight against.

September 20, 44
Socked in all day. We were at the planes all day waiting for the word to take off.

September 21, 44
I don't like this deal at all.
We finally took off and had to climb to 8,000 feet to break through the fog and clouds. Only nine
planes broke through behind us, but we continued on our way to the Continent. Our small group
continued on till we received some unintelligible radio messages. Our radio operator had been
given the wrong codes for the day. We had reached the enemy-held territory and the weather was
still bad, so the pilot wisely turned back. It was a hard decision to make, but I think he did rightly.
Those that did go through with their drop had a tough time and got the hell shot out of them.

September 22, 44
Still sweating out the weather. All day long we gathered around the plane waiting for the word to
take off. Every bit of activity at the operations building causes a nervous thrill of anticipation to
chill us.

September 23-24, 44
The mission is definitely off and passes are open again.
On Sunday, Glenn Miller and his band were at North Witham. It was a wonderful treat. They
played for at least an hour.
............."

[Pathfinder]

Thank you mon ami!

I think Kornel may be considering switching from modelling Turf over to an unnamed plane in 310/315 (43-15339) as there is quite a bit of detailed info in the MACR and other sources cited above.

DB

[kornik69]

Dear friends

I am very sorry for not replying for so long. The last year was quite busy for me. I became a father and I have gained a lot of new responsibilities associated with fatherhood, as well as with my professional work. My work on the C-47 model kit continued but with many breaks. I was looking for documentation, images, C-47 models of other modelers etc. In the end, I decided to prepare the model of "Turf and Sport Special". You can check it's photos below. I did my best to do it as carefully as possible to give it a historical appearance, though some elements are my modeling interpretation. Trumpeter's 1/48 scale model kit is a very imperfect one. If someone wants to build a C-47 on its base must prepare for a hard time. I know that my model is not perfect but I hope you like it. If you have any questions about it feel free to write me.

Thank you for all your help and kindness. It is a pleasure to discuss these topics with you.



















Best Wishes
Kornel

[StangStung]

That's a master work. Well done!

[Pathfinder]

OUTSTANDING!!!!!

[kornik69]

Thanks Guys!

I am glad that you like it. I put a lot of work, heart and nerves in it but I think it was worth it.

I am adding two pics of the interior. Sorry for the low quality. They were done just before adding some radio wires and placing in the fuselage.





Best Wishes
Kornel