'Captivair' trainers ...

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7826

... Another deal way back when that was unknown to me. Looks like it was a good idea though.
Some crazy yet ingenious ideas back in the day. Never a shortage of ideas put to use.

Above: "P-51 Ground trainer for new pilots and mechanics. You can start it, run it up, cycle the gear and all the systems without much risk of a major mishap." (Photo: Mark Hrutkay‎)

Below: "P-51K-10-NT 44-12128 at Key Field, Meridian, MS, used as so-called 'Captivair' trainer by the 347th BU. The photographs were taken 11th August 1945" (Photos & quote: Swiss Mustangs)

Below: "Charles Schultz Airport in Santa Rosa, CA was originally a training base for newly formed fighter groups (354th, 357th and 363rd FG) and then later did multi-engine fighter training. The book has this little gem. The shack next to it held a duplicated instrument panel that an instructor could monitor engine and other control functions. They called it "Chained Lightning" (Photo & quote: Junkman3353)

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7826

Another setup ...

"TA-608 was used by Captivair at Perrin AFB, TX" (Photo & quote: Phillip Friddell)

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7826

During those training years, the Captivair began to be used due to the dangers of not having a co-pilot seat with new pilots. This was an experimental prototype training device for pilots using operational aircraft on pylons that could quickly be returned to air service after serving as training aids.

(Source: Flying Magazine Feb 1950)

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:11 pm

I just recently saw this and was fascinated. I'm going to have to do some more reading up on this since I have never seen the like before. Thanks Mark

JohnB · **Posted:** Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:09 pm

I've seen them before...I'm not sure what good they be except for engine start procedures and operating the gear.

What would have been great is if they could have devised a mounting to make the aircraft yaw...that way students pilots would learn about the amount of torque produced at take off power.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7826

JohnB wrote:

I'm not sure what good they be

Good enough to have spent the time to build a wooden fence around them. :shock:

Seeing they built more than one in more than one location, they must have had some value. Or not!
Interesting idea. I probably could have used one before I soloed for the first time. Wasn't pretty if I recall.

Digging around:

"Mary Feik also used her expertise to design high-performance and jet fighter pilot transition trainers and aircraft maintenance trainers. The pilot training manuals and technical engineering reports she authored were distributed throughout the Armed Forces. Her deployable design of "Captivair" rigs allowed aircraft procedures and limits to be tested with running engines on the ground."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Feik

P-80 setup
https://books.google.com/books?id=fSYDA ... er&f=false

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7826

On further thought, I'd venture a guess they were actually quite useful. Consider the accidents training pilots & aircraft loss rate back in the 40's and I'm sure the brass somewhere needed to find ways to significantly reduce accidents from happening. This idea probably was quite good at the time. I could see being a new young pilot who just completed the minimum hours in a T-6 and not knowing a high performance fighters feel. Spending a few hours in one of these contraptions would certainly be helpful before being unleashed in one free of restrictions.

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:47 pm

I think the biggest thing with these is that you didn't have sims back then to practice procedures on. This gave you the opprotunity not only to practice the normal procedures with all the sounds, smells, and most of the sights, but it also let you practice your emergency procedures in relative safety, something you could only do otherwise in the air. With a single-seat plane, that's one daunting prospect.

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

Pretty cool!

Last time I saw that many photos of the captivair airplanes, was back in the 1970s, when I was in high school, and a classmate brought a book with many interesting images, those included!

Thank you for posting them,

Saludos,

Tulio

Ken · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:10 am

I've been fortunate to have been exposed to a wide variety of military and civilian training devices - everything from paper & plywood mock-ups to the most modern flight simulators.

Today's airline new hires start in mock-ups built from large flat touch-screen TV's where they tap or touch an image of what is actually a round knob in the jet ... the screen can be finicky and this can be frustrating and provide negative training ... which is why those Captivairs were likely some of the best training devices available. Everything was real and operated like the real thing. What a great way to expose new guys & build habit patterns.

Ken

Rick65 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:24 am

Mark
Thanks for the photos of one of the interesting side use of tired machines.

Have you ever run into any photos of early Dilbert Dunkers (a US Navy device for training pilots on how to correctly escape a submerged plane) something I have only just learned existed. I can easily find photos of the later devices but not the early ones from near the end of WW2.

Apparently the original dunker featured "the surveyed forward fuselage section of an SNJ Texan that contained “all equipment in the cockpit that would hinder a pilot’s exit from the cockpit.” This included the instrument panel (minus the instruments themselves) and the stick, rudder pedals, and brake pedals, which were spring loaded to simulate actual conditions by holding them in place".

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7826

Your talking these? ...

Dilbert Dunker on board Naval Air Station (NAS) Pensacola, Florida.

Dilbert dunker at the swimming pool at NAS Boca Chica which was removed in the 1970s. U.S. Navy photo

John Dupre · **Posted:** Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:25 pm

Interesting but I have seen photos of Bf 109s running and cycling the gear outdoors on jacks!

Rick65 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:54 pm

Thanks Mark, they look a lot less serious than the later ones which had tracks extending well under the water and the ability to turn the SNJ cockpit upside down underwater.
I first read about the Dunkers in a book "Smell of Kerosene" by NASA pilot Donald Mallick who started in the Navy.
I find oddities like the Dunkers and Captivairs fascinating.

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'Captivair' trainers ...

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