WWII Training Glider flight characteristics & performance

[Speeddemon651]

I was curious of the 8 training gliders produced / tested / used for training during WWII, which had the best flight characteristics and or performance ? Pratt-Read TG-32 ?

-Frankfort Cinema TG-1
-Schweizer TG-2
-Schweizer TG-3
-Pratt-Read TG-32
-Laister - Kauffman TG-4
-Aeronca TG-5
-Taylorcraft TG-6
-Piper TG-8

[JohnB]

A bit of an apple vs orange question.
Some to those you name...The Frankfort, Laister-Kauffman and the Schweizers were civil sailplanes.
The Piper/Taylorcraft and Aeroncas were very basic training gliders which you probably know were based on Cub-type aircraft.

Last edited by JohnB on Thu May 12, 2016 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[shrike]

The TG-1-4 were relatively high performance sailplanes, while the TG-5-8 were based on L-birds with an extra seat where the engine would be. This made them more suitable trainers for the CG-4's (which had the glide ratio of a winged brick.


The TG-4A is VNE of 129mph, L/D of 23:1 @55mph, min sink @45mph

[Speeddemon651]

A bit of an apple vs orange question.
Some to those you name...The Frankfort, Laister-Kauffman and the Schweizers were civil sailplanes.
The Piper/Taylorcraft and Aeroncas were very basic training gliders which you probably know were based on Cub-type aircraft.

That's true but I curious if anyone has any flight experience with any of these gliders and can chime in.

The TG-32 looked pretty ahead of its time, I was really curious if any stood out from the pack. These gliders aren't talked about much.

USAF Museum has TG-4A VNE listed as 100mph, same the the TG-32. I believe the TG-3's VNE was 90 MPH

https://www.museumofaviation.org/TG4.php

[Speeddemon651]

"Page 441" of the link below lists the TG-4A as:

L- 21' 4",
W- 50'
Gross - 850 lbs
VNE - 80 MPH

https://books.google.com/books?id=kIyoB ... ns&f=false

[Forgotten Field]

CG-4's(which had the glide ratio of a winged brick.

CG-4A glide ratio is 12-14:1, which is about what a C-150 or C-172 will do engine out. Where do you come up with winged brick?

[shrike]

CG-4's(which had the glide ratio of a winged brick.

CG-4A glide ratio is 12-14:1, which is about what a C-150 or C-172 will do engine out. Where do you come up with winged brick?

Compared to the sailplane the Army had initially ordered as trainers, all of which were in the 20+:1 category. In the gliding/soaring paradigm, even in the 30-40's 12:1 is primary glider brick like performance.
Partially it was the US Army being ignorantly being swept along in glider euphoria after Eben Amal, and partially a major doctrinal shift in planned glider use. Originally the plan was to release them at a decent altitude and let them glide in silently some distance from the release point. In practice it was a low level sleigh ride.

[shrike]

"Page 441" of the link below lists the TG-4A as:

L- 21' 4",
W- 50'
Gross - 850 lbs
VNE - 80 MPH

https://books.google.com/books?id=kIyoB ... ns&f=false

I'll stand by 129 as VNE as that's what the POH, TCDS and the placard on my instrument panel all say.

[airknocker]

http://www.silentwingsmuseum.org/

[Speeddemon651]

TG-4A TCDS says 126 mph, how come it's VNE is so much higher than the TG-3 & TG-32 ?

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... E/g-15.pdf

[shrike]

TG-4A TCDS says 126 mph, how come it's VNE is so much higher than the TG-3 & TG-32 ?

It's just a slicker airframe with less frontal area and no struts. The big wing root fairings seem to work well enough(and provide elbow room and downward vision for the back seat), that the post war cut-down bubble canopy fairing-less modification actually has worse performance as well as being ugly

[Speeddemon651]

Doing some more research I've found the following glide ratio's :

TG-3A : 20 to 1
TG-32/LNE-1 : 26 to 1
TG-4A : 22 to 1

[marine air]

Okay I'll bite. My first glider solo was in a Schweizer TG-3A in the mid 1980's the airport I worked at Eagleville (50M) had two basketcase and one ratty old flyer. The GLider field had been started by a WW II pilot named Garland Pack, later purchased by Bob and Kathy McFarland. We had a few WW II veterans and ocassionally received a visit from WW II British and German glider pilots. Supposedly the TG-3A was the best performing U.S. glider in WW II. Unofficially there are four categories of American WW II gliders. 1) Glider companies that built a few for the U.S. military. 2) Non glider companies who's only question was "How much does it pay and how many copies?" 3) More advanced gliders built by modifying powered aircraft designs and 4) Combat gliders used to haul much heavier loads of troops and combat equipment.
The TG-3A was well liked at the glider field as many had learned to fly in it over the previous 40 years. It has what I call 1930's aerodynamic ideas. Or, how they thought, prior to the 1940's , a plane should fly. The controls are not balanced. All turns require leading with lots of rudder and much less aileron. No flaps, but will slip like crazy. Weak brakes but a tailskid that could be used to stop quickly. The cable release and the spoiler knobs are both located on the instrument panel. I've seen students float almost the entire length of the 2,000' grass runway , sometimes bouncing the main tire and the darn thing wouldn't quit floating. They had been pulling the wrong knob.
Don't remember the numbers but they were lower than most gliders. Say, Stall 29 mph, Best L/D 43, best penetration 58 and max towing speed 55 mph. We had to tow it at 70 mph. It could "soar" like a sailplane and I watched a guy thermal to 8,500' AGL one day. Heard of 5 and 6 hour flights. It was stressed for light aerobatics , spins, two 200 lb pilots and parachutes, and originally had a battery to operate the wingtip lights and instrument panel for night currency flights.
Mr Pack had modified the gliders to reduce weight and make them safer. One glider had been involved in a fatality in the pattern where the guy spun in. Mr. Pack modified the wingtips from the elliptical to more squared tips.
Seems like the sink rate on ours was maybe 300 fpm. With spoiler extended maybe 800 fpm and this could be increased by slipping. Like a Stearman, the ailerons require real muscle and the rudder pedals are set far apart. One was restored and is still being flown at Eagleville. It was a gentle aircraft and always put a big smile on it's pilots faces.