F-86 mishap at Maxwell AFB airshow?
Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:38 pm
Another forum has a post reporting that a F-86 landed with a gear problem at the Maxwell AFB airshow...
Looks as if one of the mains did not come down (photo in the 2nd link).
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... aa232f7c2a
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/app ... 90308/1001
Looks as if one of the mains did not come down (photo in the 2nd link).
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... aa232f7c2a
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/app ... 90308/1001
Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:45 pm
Ouch! Glad no-one was hurt.
Hopefully the damage isn't too great. I saw this one at Sun 'n Fun last year, a really nice example.
Hopefully the damage isn't too great. I saw this one at Sun 'n Fun last year, a really nice example.
Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:24 pm
Here is the video. Great job keepin her straight! 
http://www.montgomeryboycott.com/video_f86landing.htm
http://www.montgomeryboycott.com/video_f86landing.htm
Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:33 am
From the look of it, I'd almost be willing to bet the damage was confined to the right drop tank. Makes a good argument for flying your plane "dirty" as long as you still have power available to maneuver.
Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:46 am
Rob, once you decide to go "dirty" you are going to stay "dirty".
FAA doesn't allow externals that can be jettisoned on civilian birds. It can be a problem if you have one that won't transfer and you have one that stays heavy. The ability to deal with an asymetric load varies from plane to plane.
Ya'll may remeber that Dave Zueschel tried a similar thing but he lost a tank and the Sabre cartwheeled on him. Thankfully a happy ending this time. Nice job by the pilot.
FAA doesn't allow externals that can be jettisoned on civilian birds. It can be a problem if you have one that won't transfer and you have one that stays heavy. The ability to deal with an asymetric load varies from plane to plane.
Ya'll may remeber that Dave Zueschel tried a similar thing but he lost a tank and the Sabre cartwheeled on him. Thankfully a happy ending this time. Nice job by the pilot.
Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:42 pm
The circumstances were quite a bit different with Zeuschel's crash. His engine had seized so he had no hydraulic pressure (flaps or gear). Eyewitness reports at the time were that he attempted to belly land very fast, bounced, lost control and cartwheeled.RickH wrote:Ya'll may remeber that Dave Zueschel tried a similar thing but he lost a tank and the Sabre cartwheeled on him.
Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:18 pm
BDK, that's true but if the tank hadn't seperated he probably would have made it OK.
Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:25 pm
I remember Zeuchel's wreck and it was a far more violent approach in regard to speed and decent rate as compared to this weeks crash landing. I'm not sure I would have expected that drop tank to hang on, much less not rupture under those circumstances.
Doesn't the FAA allow General Aviation aircraft the ability to at least dump fuel prior to this type of emergency landing (like their airline counterparts)? I can just imagine a pilot being forced to bail out, sending his entire plane careening down toward the unknown as the result of not being able to safely jettison a fuel-laden drop tank if need be.
Doesn't the FAA allow General Aviation aircraft the ability to at least dump fuel prior to this type of emergency landing (like their airline counterparts)? I can just imagine a pilot being forced to bail out, sending his entire plane careening down toward the unknown as the result of not being able to safely jettison a fuel-laden drop tank if need be.
Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:57 pm
Rob that very discussion was held with a former Navy A-6 driver turned FAA guy. He couldn't believe that nonjettisonable externals were mandated by Washington. He used your words almost word for word. We asked him if he was interested in fighting the decision at FAA Headquarters but he quickly pulled his neck back in. 
Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:13 pm
When we built the P-64, it had a 55gal drop tank installed. When the FAA looked at it, they asked if it could be dropped in flight and we said no, and showed them the handle that was saftied with .032, and that there was a block installed on the shackle. they were satisfied, as soon as they left, the system was made hot. There was no way in hell we were going to have a drop tank on if we had to do a belly landing. On some things it is better to say FTFAA.
Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:17 am
The f-86 flaps are electric not hydraulic. The gear,speed brakes,wheel brakes and most important flight controls are hydraulic driven.
Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:22 am
Has anyone heard the cause of the first gear incident a few weeks ago? Or should that topic be left alone? This certainly looks like a mechanical failure of some sort as the gear should have been able to free fall in emergency. Correct me if I'm wrong, Any thoughts?
David
David
Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:38 am
I hear you Matt. The T-33 has the springloaded manual system that you can get away with, but you're pretty much stuck on the systems that require carts for explosive separation.
Last edited by RickH on Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:17 am
I would like the ability to jettison the stores (2 7 round WP rocket launchers and 2 dummy 100 lbs bombs) from my O2-A in the case of emergency. If I lost an engine on a hot day fully loaded, the ability to release that extra drag and weight may make the difference between making the field, and buying the farm.
On the other hand, some kind of parachute system to keep the stuff from plummeting to the ground would be nice. It would also protect your investment.
On the other hand, some kind of parachute system to keep the stuff from plummeting to the ground would be nice. It would also protect your investment.
Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:29 pm
Oops! Those flight controls are pretty useful though I have heard.vanguard wrote:The f-86 flaps are electric not hydraulic. The gear,speed brakes,wheel brakes and most important flight controls are hydraulic driven.