Warbird Information Exchange

As a boy, I was taught to respect the American flag and all that it stands for. I was also taught to respect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and all that they stand for. It really bugs me when I see people disrespect the flag as a form of protest. At the same time, though, I thank each and every man and woman who have ever served this great nation, for it has been because of their sacrifice that we continue to have the right to protest. As someone else pointed out elsewhere in this thread, free speech does not have to be popular, it just has to be protected. We don't have to like the things that people are saying, but we darned sure need to let them say them.

Dean the American

They didn't die for the flag: they died protecting a decent way of life and to ensure that men and women of all races and creeds could live as equals. In fact the reverse of that is pretty much why folks are kneeling: nothing related to "patriotism" or whatever else one wants to turn the issue into. But it's a good way of trying to avoid the real issue here.

Somehow the flag has been turned into shorthand for "patriotism" or "freedom" and instead of defending our freedoms (including freedom of speech), we're bothered about the bloody flag.

But that's your opinion and you have every right to express it. Just as do NFL players.

I beg to differ.

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

Of course people have the right to stand or not stand.
That's the way it should be in our country.

But, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...if for no other reason, common courtesy or respect.

If one has manners, (or class ) one doesn't burn the flag or desecrate a religious symbol that means something to others, just because the law says you can.

Although I don't agree with him, I'll give the QB credit for putting this opinions before his bank account. I'll bet there are plenty of athletes, actors and other "celebrities" who feel the same way but don't want to lose fans or endorsement deals (or politicians who don't want to lose votes).

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

No avoidance here and no confusion about what flags and patriotism have to do with an NFL players protest and certainly no confusion over what the 1st Amendment means. Although for some it's easy to think so, but none of it has anything to do with the issue. The issue and goal is to seek change. To seek change requires understanding and respect, to receive understanding and respect requires giving it as much as taking it. To many it's just a flag or rag, to many more it's much much more. Controversy is not the answer, disrespect is not the answer and certainly war is not the answer ....

So, a nonviolent gesture from an NFL player to garner the attention of millions of people, and then following that up with a fairly clear verbal explanation of the whys of his protest and a million dollar donation to the work of reconciliation ... isn’t the right way? .... it's commendable in it's theory but No! it's not the right way when the goal is to unite people, but instead divide people. This NFL player has stated he will continue to protest in his own way until he sees change. Change will only come from a united people. I fear he will be protesting a long long time and unfortunately may be eventually ignored and this will indeed be a shame. I respect his intentions and I would walk right next to him anytime, but even though it's just a rag and a silly song to some, I still choose to make both mean more to me ... But that's my opinion and I have every right to express it. Just as do NFL players.

It's really easy to state, but it's a fact. ... There’s a better way to do things like this.

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45+47=Psalm 92:6

Manners and class are a luxury of the privileged.

And yes, a millionaire quarterback is one of the privileged. This one has chosen to align himself with the non-privileged, probably at a cost of millions to himself. Good for him.

The fact that the symbol means something to others is why it makes for an effective protest. Protests have to be IN THE FACE of the privileged if problems are going to get solved. If you're uncomfortable with it or your feelings are hurt, good. It's working.

August

And yet you just proved my point. Who got hurt or died because you posted those flags?

Hurt feelings don't count.

A flag never killed anybody. What do the gun fondlers say -- "People get shot by people, not by guns?" Nobody ever got shot, gassed or beheaded by a flag. Nobody ever got motivated to shoot, gas or kill because of a flag. It's IDEAS that do that.

I have changed my mind, though, about my earlier suggestion that it is weird that we play the national anthem (and wave the flag) at sporting events. After all, sporting events are where we go to root for athletes from somewhere else, often other countries, because they happen to be wearing shirts with the names of our cities on them. We go to cheer for laundry. I guess if we can cheer for laundry, we can salute a flag. We have a textile fetish!

August

Not where I was raised. Our poor family still practiced your statement daily and clearly understood what it mean't to do so.


Agreed, but by choice that this country has given him the option to do so. Not forced upon him and that is good for him, and the non-privileged.


And this approach has certainly shown to be effective over the years. Plenty of full cemeteries to prove it.

I'm comfortable and it's not working for me.

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45+47=Psalm 92:6

I'd rather talk about warbirds.....

Honestly don't know what you mean by that.

What we do have "to prove it" are the Civil Rights Act, the right of women to vote, and a lot of other positive social, cultural and political change in which in-your-face protest -- usually much ruder than this -- has played an important role.

People -- including vets -- whose understanding of America isn't as thin as the cloth of a flag are lining up with Colin.

I hope it catches on. I hope that every time the anthem is played, it becomes okay for everyone who feels that the country isn't living up to its ideals to politely and respectfully remain seated -- on the field, in the stands, wherever. Every playing of the anthem should be a test, not of mindless pride and devotion, but of how the nation is doing. That would be a better, and more truly patriotic, USA than ours.

August out!

August

A pissing match over the flag.. Just what WIX needed. I will tell you how I handled it.. The day the news came out, I saw the headline. I thought, "never heard of this guy." And moved on to the next headline. Forgot all about until just now.

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Rob C

Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. “

– Michael Crichton

Sure you know, you listed several well known examples.

Every playing of the anthem is a reminder that even though we're flawed as a country we still are very
Fortunate to be able to live in this country. It's not too much to ask that we as citizens of this country at the very least show a little respect to a symbol that matters to a great many people. Even if it happens to be a thin piece of cloth. If Colin wants change? Sitting or kneeling won't do it.

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45+47=Psalm 92:6

What do you want to talk about? Post something. I'm up for it

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45+47=Psalm 92:6

I think that's what they said in France just before they brought out the guillotine.
Sure, "Burn, baby burn"!
Cut the class warfare crap, one could use tha tto justify anything....like the guy who robbed banks during Vietnam, he said it was a protest since the government insured the bank's money. Yeah, right.

It's one thing to be Rosa Parks and stand up for yourself by peaceful protest, and quite another to be doing something you know to be hurtful to many (of all classes).
IIRC, she didn't call the white man who wanted her seat a name, or spit in his face.

During my time in the service, I knew many people (officers and enlisted) who came from "underprivileged" backgrounds.
They were all fine men and patriots. I don't think they'd be too happy to see what's going on.

Dr. King did his speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial, he didn't burn the flag, leave graffiti or piss in the reflecting pool.
Times have changed.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Got us discussing it though didn't it: seems to be working from where I'm kneeling.