Warbird Information Exchange

Dude, no need to take it personally no harm intended.... There are actually a ton of funky rules as to what pilots get to fly what and why and how many are needed and why. Its actually fascinating and interesting.

Rob -- I am curious -- what did you find nasty here. I think this is a quite civil and interesting thread.

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Neal Nurmi

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I agree with Neal. I think that Menards was simply explaining the difference and why the FAR is the way it is.

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Cheers!

Lance Jones

The F-82 provides for two pilots. I do not believe 2 pilots are necessary, and doubt the FAA will require two souls on board for the test flight or any other flight. Of course, that may depend on which FAA representative issues the operating limitations - they sometimes vary, even within an office, depending on different rule interpretations.

I'll answer your question with a question. Do you want to be the pilot in the left seat on the first test flight, when the guy in the right seat who you cannot see, starts manipulating the controls? Cause I don't.

Airplanes have dual controls either for training purposes, or for long flights so that a copilot can spell the pilot, or to share the workload for complex airplanes. We can eliminate the latter since the primary mission of the P-82 is single pilot.

What upset me was that he asked the question twice; I gave the answer twice, and then he declared that it was wrong with speculation that was not thought out. With your two pilots on the test flight, when the thing starts spiraling into the ground on take off, who gets to save it?

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Rob C

Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. “

– Michael Crichton

Is anybody still around that flew the CAF twin stang?

Tylemetry?

I see alot of ground testing on this bird

Test pilots have a very rigorous testing sequence
In concert with the ground crew

The P-38 is complex as well


Rob has a point

I don't think anybody here is advocating two crew, but simply speculating about how the FARs and such might apply. Maybe I'm missing something. I do some work for the government and I've long since given up any hope that government regulations and rules passed down from on high might make sense to me on the ground...

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Neal Nurmi

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I think (logically) that this a two pilot airplane for the test flights. I don't know what the FAA will recommend/require- it is experimental, after all, and there is a measure of control they don't have over how it is flown.

I think it is a two pilot airplane for the following reasons:

1. New airplane, new experience, lots going on. One gauge reader and one pilot might be the safest bet. I'm not a test pilot, but this is how I'd approach it.

2. Problem solving in the aircraft is handled by two crew, not one. Definitely a benefit for a first test flight.

3. Communications with the ground, including added telemetry, could be the responsibility of one pilot while the other is flying. This adds a safety layer to the first flights and allows for information gathering that will be important for going forward operationally.

4. Emergency procedures- one person running the emergency, one flying the plane.

Tom Reilly is a brilliant guy, who is conventional in his wisdom but very open-minded to external experience about how to safely run a flight test regime. I think no matter what happens, it will be done right.

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

I watched a Youtube video of Keith Skilling talking about test flying Mosquito KA114.
It is a single control, dual place aircraft. They had two people on board.
His point was that two skilled pairs of eyes were of value. Pretty good logic. The New Zealand authorities agreed fully.
Given the craftsmanship of this Twin Mustang, I dare say the test flying will be equally as exacting.
The best crew and engineers will lead to the best outcome.

No doubt we're all looking forward.

Andy Scott

The only reason this bird has a second set of controls was for the pilot to take a break and let the other guy take over during long flights. Eventually those controls where removed.

So if a single control F-82 gets done, will they still have two pilots take it up?