Yanks Air Museum (and others) suing to stop the POF airshow?

[Warbird Kid]

How about Florida instead?

Florida has got plenty of warbirds already!!!

[CoastieJohn]

How about Florida instead?

Just what Kermit needs...a litigious testy neighbor! INCOMING!

"Kermie" might enjoy the like-minded museum.

The New Smyrna or Deland Airport could be an option. (Deland has the CAF - Florida Wing, NS has American Aero) They would be in familiar company there. Maybe a joint collaboration?? Might have to loose the "Yanks" name though. That wouldn't fit down south and they may come out of this lawsuit deal with a long-lasting rep. I always liked the "Confederate" word usage (ie...Confederate Air Museum) but I guess that isn't PC these days.

[JohnH]

Maybe after this dispute is resolved, POF and Yanks and maybe even the FBOs and Allied Fighters (which doesn't seem to participate in Chino shows any more -- another deteriorated relationship?)

August

No Dispute. Allied Fighters' Chief Pilot and manager Jeff Harris died.

[JimH]

I wouldn't look for Charles Nichols or Yanks to leave the state or the LA area. His business has been in Southern California since 1959 and is still family owned. Just a cursory google search revealed the "new" location has not progressed past leveling a plot of land off of the interstate. Over the years Yanks has gotten more and more entrenched at Chino and the economic feasibility of picking up and moving is hard to imagine. You have 170+ airframes that don't fly...to move 300 miles up the 101. Many of them are 20's and 30's era machines that are extremely fragile. Then factor in building the facility in today's economy AND in California. You are looking at a 10 to 20 million dollar expense just in a facility, and that is probably being conservative. Chino looks to be home.

The best thing they can do is apologize and start rebuilding their credibility. They will still get visitors, and this will pass, eventually. The damage to the core warbird fans has been done, probably permanently. Fortunately, for people like Yanks, they don't rely on the core warbird fans. They cater to events like weddings, and the general population that has a cursory interest in airplanes. I've always seen Yanks as a tax shelter for a collector. Visiting Yanks almost seemed like a nuisance to the staff....not to mention, for a long time, the hours of operation were very limited.

I will say the comments and backlash on Facebook, Yelp, and Trip Adviser have been incredible. The power of free speech has certainly taken on a new meaning in today's world.

Jim

Last edited by JimH on Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Decamara]

Madera airport is wide open

Used to be a haven for warbirds many moons ago

[Lon Moer]

Madera airport is wide open

Used to be a haven for warbirds many moons ago

The "Gathering of Warbirds" was a great show back in the late '70s and '80s.

I worked on the ground crew directing show planes and using the tug for several years in the '80s - and some hard partying into the nights.

[bdk]

What makes anyone think Yanks cares about public opinion?

Before Yanks it was Yankee Air Corps which was basically a restoration facility and toy box, fully funded by and for the benefit of the owner. It was not open to the public at all.

So now it has been transformed into a museum with a different tax status and the ability to accept donations and get special privileges from the county of San Bernardino. I'm not sure the resulting facility/organization lives or dies based upon whether they have one museum patron or one thousand, but it is open to the public. In any case, Yanks has a significant collection of some very rare aircraft, all very well restored (regardless of your opinion of their airworthiness). You can boycott if you want, but then you don't get to see the aircraft in person.

Yanks current position seems to be that they anticipate having a presence at Chino Airport indefinitely regardless of their development activities up north.

This whole pissin' contest between the two main parties started a long time ago. Perhaps this lawsuit will end it, perhaps not.

[Warbird Kid]

This whole pissin' contest between the two main parties started a long time ago. Perhaps this lawsuit will end it, perhaps not.

I would assume that the majority of people would think Yanks has been the only one doing the pissin'. Has POF done anything intentionally to piss off Yanks?

[bdk]

I would assume that the majority of people would think Yanks has been the only one doing the pissin'. Has POF done anything intentionally to piss off Yanks?

I think the lawsuit alleges to communicate that.

[T J Johansen]

This whole pissin' contest between the two main parties started a long time ago. Perhaps this lawsuit will end it, perhaps not.

I've heard the same recently.

T J

[JimH]

What makes anyone think Yanks cares about public opinion?

Before Yanks it was Yankee Air Corps which was basically a restoration facility and toy box, fully funded by and for the benefit of the owner. It was not open to the public at all.

So now it has been transformed into a museum with a different tax status and the ability to accept donations and get special privileges from the county of San Bernardino. I'm not sure the resulting facility/organization lives or dies based upon whether they have one museum patron or one thousand, but it is open to the public. In any case, Yanks has a significant collection of some very rare aircraft, all very well restored (regardless of your opinion of their airworthiness). You can boycott if you want, but then you don't get to see the aircraft in person.

Yanks current position seems to be that they anticipate having a presence at Chino Airport indefinitely regardless of their development activities up north.

This whole pissin' contest between the two main parties started a long time ago. Perhaps this lawsuit will end it, perhaps not.

Exactly

[OD/NG]

What makes anyone think Yanks cares about public opinion?

Before Yanks it was Yankee Air Corps which was basically a restoration facility and toy box, fully funded by and for the benefit of the owner. It was not open to the public at all.

So now it has been transformed into a museum with a different tax status and the ability to accept donations and get special privileges from the county of San Bernardino. I'm not sure the resulting facility/organization lives or dies based upon whether they have one museum patron or one thousand, but it is open to the public. In any case, Yanks has a significant collection of some very rare aircraft, all very well restored (regardless of your opinion of their airworthiness). You can boycott if you want, but then you don't get to see the aircraft in person.

Yanks current position seems to be that they anticipate having a presence at Chino Airport indefinitely regardless of their development activities up north.

This whole pissin' contest between the two main parties started a long time ago. Perhaps this lawsuit will end it, perhaps not.

That may be the case that Charlie Nichols doesn't care about public opinion, BUT, this seemingly "grass roots" orchestrated informal "boycott" is important for a very different reason - to show other aviation businesses what can potentially happen if they don't support airshows and public sentiment. I believe that all of the negative publicity is as much to make an example out of Yanks as it is to punish Yanks. As has been mentioned previously, this lawsuit IS going to set a precedent for the rest of the industry - good or bad - and lots of anti-aviation elements are watching it carefully. However this turns out, the rest of the businesses in the U.S. on or near airports need to know what the public thinks of entity's that try to stop airshows through legal means.

Whatever side you are on, you have to admit that it is just not cool to file an injunction to permanently stop one of the top 2 or 3 warbird airshows in the world.

Yanks could have gone about this much smarter - including a public relations/social media campaign which would have been much more effective. I'm afraid that Yanks cut themselves off at the knees when they filed the lawsuit. Whatever amount of credibility they had got instantly axed with that legal action, IMO.

[OD/NG]

HHmmm, Yanks is now changing their story:

https://yanksair.org/chino-airport-tena ... -air-show/

Also, on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/YanksAirMuseum/



1) From the press release above from Yanks, Misrepresentation #1:

"The group of tenants suing the operators of the annual Planes of Fame Air Show is calling for the County of San Bernardino to appoint a coalition of tenants to oversee any future air shows at the Chino Airport."

Yanks has not asked for a coalition of tenants, according to the publicly disclosed County of San Bernardino lawsuit documents. The list of judgments they seek in on pages 19-20, Case number DS1705434, County of San Bernardino, Superior Court, filed March 27, 2017. Getting a "coalition of tenants" is not mentioned in the lawsuit document.



2) From the press release above from Yanks, Misrepresentation #2:

"The plaintiffs are not anti-air show......They want to clarify that this suit will not end air shows at the Chino Airport."

From page 19 of the same San Bernardino county public law document above, it states the plaintiffs' desired judgments:

"2. For a permanent injunction restraining Planes of Fame from operating an air show at the Chino Airport."



This latest press release from Yanks appears to me to be "damage control". They know they've lost public opinion, so they are changing their story. Their public words do not match their legal words according to publicly available legal documents.

I'm not a lawyer, but from reading the Superior Court legal documents, this is what I got from it. Anybody disagree with my assessment?

[warbirdfinder]

Isn't Yanks Museum planning on moving to Salinas, CA? or have I heard wrong?

[CoastieJohn]

What makes anyone think Yanks cares about public opinion?

Before Yanks it was Yankee Air Corps which was basically a restoration facility and toy box, fully funded by and for the benefit of the owner. It was not open to the public at all.

So now it has been transformed into a museum with a different tax status and the ability to accept donations and get special privileges from the county of San Bernardino. I'm not sure the resulting facility/organization lives or dies based upon whether they have one museum patron or one thousand, but it is open to the public. In any case, Yanks has a significant collection of some very rare aircraft, all very well restored (regardless of your opinion of their airworthiness). You can boycott if you want, but then you don't get to see the aircraft in person.

Yanks current position seems to be that they anticipate having a presence at Chino Airport indefinitely regardless of their development activities up north.

This whole pissin' contest between the two main parties started a long time ago. Perhaps this lawsuit will end it, perhaps not.

That may be the case that Charlie Nichols doesn't care about public opinion, BUT, this seemingly "grass roots" orchestrated informal "boycott" is important for a very different reason - to show other aviation businesses what can potentially happen if they don't support airshows and public sentiment. I believe that all of the negative publicity is as much to make an example out of Yanks as it is to punish Yanks. As has been mentioned previously, this lawsuit IS going to set a precedent for the rest of the industry - good or bad - and lots of anti-aviation elements are watching it carefully. However this turns out, the rest of the businesses in the U.S. on or near airports need to know what the public thinks of entity's that try to stop airshows through legal means.

Whatever side you are on, you have to admit that it is just not cool to file an injunction to permanently stop one of the top 2 or 3 warbird airshows in the world.

Yanks could have gone about this much smarter - including a public relations/social media campaign which would have been much more effective. I'm afraid that Yanks cut themselves off at the knees when they filed the lawsuit. Whatever amount of credibility they had got instantly axed with that legal action, IMO.

No doubt it's not popular for some within the warbird community and that is not really a surprise. To look at it objectively, or at least try....if we changed the players, event and location, I think there would still be some outrage....just from a different group of people that have an interest or are affected by the different event.

I think I read April 20th is when the case goes to court. I'm sure this isn't the first time a situation similar to this has come before the court. We could probably look at past case history and get an idea of what may happen. Wearing a sea lawyer hat, if the court finds the case does not have merit, it will get tossed. If the court finds it does have merit, I think we will see the negotiations start and some type of legal agreement will come out of this and the issue is resolved. IMO...either way the show will go on as planned.