B-24J Witchcraft Incident at Love Field, Dallas - 4/5/18

[rcaf_100]

Slight injury to co-pilot's hand and propeller/fuselage damage to Witchcraft, apparently caused by a piece of concrete.
Glad everyone's okay

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Love- ... 87543.html

[TAdan]

Wow, thank goodness it wasn't worse.

[Jesse C.]

Bummer to hear of injuries and damage, but good thing it was not worse.

They should not fly that plane anymore since it is the last one of its kind still in existence!

[Combatmech]

Bummer to hear of injuries and damage, but good thing it was not worse.

They should not fly that plane anymore since it is the last one of its kind still in existence!

Negative. There are more. Yes, there is much debate about it, HOWEVER, The CAF has a B24A. Yes, built as an LB30 and it was also a C-87. Then back to a B24. Loads of documentation from Consolidated to back all of that up.

In addition, Kermit has a B24J that with a Titanic boat load of cash could be made to fly again.

Darn'd if you do.....darn'd if you dont. Stuff like this happens. Glad they are safe as well.

[JohnTerrell]

Combatmech, you clearly didn't get the sarcasm of Jesse's post (the article makes it a point to claim that it is the last flying B-24 still in existence - a myth that continues to be told and promoted by the Collings Foundation).

Following from Combatmech's posting, it might require repeating - The CAF's Liberator "Diamond Lil" was the 18th B-24A built by Consolidated, and only the 25th Liberator built in all - it is one of the oldest American military aircraft built during WWII still flying, having been completed on May 7, 1941. The CAF's Liberator was originally built in full bomber/combat configuration as a B-24A. The aircraft was initially to become USAAC serial 40-2366, but was instead diverted to the RAF as a Liberator I (export designation LB-30A), with the British serial AM927. When accepted by the British Air Commission as a Liberator I/LB-30A, it was a full combat-ready bomber, with bomb bays and with fully armed gun positions. The aircraft was not sent to England, however, and instead was kept in the US. It was sent to Albuquerque, New Mexico, to be used by the Eagle Nest Flight Training Center (overseen by Transcontinental & Western Airlines (later TWA)). This company was contracted by the USAAC Ferry Command, which together also worked with the RAF Ferry Command, to train USAAC and RAF Liberator crews. The B-24A/LB-30A remained painted in full RAF camouflage and roundels during this time. The aircraft was immediately put to work, but sustained serious damage in a landing accident on July 24, 1941. Still being so early in the war, everyone was desperate for aircraft, so AM927 was sent to Consolidated to be repaired, rather than scrapped. Consolidated proposed the idea to the British Air Commission, for which they agreed, that the aircraft not only be repaired, but be converted into an experimental transport version of the Liberator. Following the modifications by Consolidated, and the success of those modifications, the aircraft became a test version of what would become the production C-87's, and was put to work by Consolidated for the rest of the war.

[Combatmech]

Combatmech, you clearly didn't get the sarcasm of Jesse's post (the article makes it a point to claim that it is the last flying B-24 still in existence - a myth that continues to be told and promoted by the Collings Foundation).

Following from Combatmech's posting, it might require repeating - The CAF's Liberator "Diamond Lil" was the 18th B-24A built by Consolidated, and only the 25th Liberator built in all - it is one of the oldest American military aircraft built during WWII still flying, having been completed on May 7, 1941. The CAF's Liberator was originally built in full bomber/combat configuration as a B-24A. The aircraft was initially to become USAAC serial 40-2366, but was instead diverted to the RAF as a Liberator I (export designation LB-30A), with the British serial AM927. When accepted by the British Air Commission as a Liberator I/LB-30A, it was a full combat-ready bomber, with bomb bays and with fully armed gun positions. The aircraft was not sent to England, however, and instead was kept in the US. It was sent to Albuquerque, New Mexico, to be used by the Eagle Nest Flight Training Center (overseen by Transcontinental & Western Airlines (later TWA)). This company was contracted by the USAAC Ferry Command, which together also worked with the RAF Ferry Command, to train USAAC and RAF Liberator crews. The B-24A/LB-30A remained painted in full RAF camouflage and roundels during this time. The aircraft was immediately put to work, but sustained serious damage in a landing accident on July 24, 1941. Still being so early in the war, everyone was desperate for aircraft, so AM927 was sent to Consolidated to be repaired, rather than scrapped. Consolidated proposed the idea to the British Air Commission, for which they agreed, that the aircraft not only be repaired, but be converted into an experimental transport version of the Liberator. Following the modifications by Consolidated, and the success of those modifications, the aircraft became a test version of what would become the production C-87's, and was put to work by Consolidated for the rest of the war.

Nope.....Missed it.
Thank you John.

And don't forget all the stuff that Continental Can and Pemex did to the airplane.

Those guys flying Witchcraft were very lucky. Again, glad all are safe.
Thanks again John.

[CAPFlyer]

It should be noted - Witchcraft was never delivered to the USAF either. It went straight to the RAF as a Liberator B.VII, something that was glossed over until recently by some of the community. The Collings Foundation has finally updated their website and breadboard to reflect its true heritage, but the problem continues to persist.

[menards]

If we want to get all technical and debate B-24A vs B-24J or C-87 or what have you, it should be worth noting that the CAF's B-24 is currently grounded, and hasn't flown the last couple seasons. This by default, makes the Collings B-24J the only truly "airworthy" (currently actively flying up until the incident) B-24 variant.

[CAPFlyer]

Technically, maintenance doesn't make an airplane "un-airworthy" in the sense you're using. Yes, 'Lil has been down since September 2016 for replacement of all 4 engines. I believe it flew a couple times last spring, but since then, yes, it's been down. It's also by far the longest period of down time for 'Lil since it rolled off the line, but it's still only been down for maintenance, modification, or repair, never in storage, and never received an actual "restoration" in the classic sense. There's been modifications made to bring it closer to the B-24A it was originally, but never a full-up restoration.

BTW, neither Witchcraft nor 'Lil are C-87s. That is a popular misconception about 'Lil more than Witchcraft. While 'Lil served as a precursor to the C-87, all of the C-87s were B-24Ds modified on the line, including the XC-87. 'Lil got her long nose AFTER the C-87s were in service.

[bdk]

Any report on the nature of the pilot's hand injury? Not serious could mean non-life threatening but still debilitating for a pilot. Hope the pilot suffers no long-term effects.

I'm sure the metal and prop damage are easily rectified.

[Fouga23]

How come Ol'927 needs 4 new engines at once?

[TheBigBadGman]

...never received an actual "restoration" in the classic sense

This is the root of the whole problem with Diamond Lil.

It's tough to call an airplane a bomber when it lacks a bombbay and features a giant cargo door in its side. The Ol 927 project did a great deal toward giving a bomber impression, but she sorta comes off like an actor wearing a costume. (The decidedly non-period nose-art doesn't help either.)

Emotions run high on the B-24 thing and I don't want to come off wrong. I love the old girl and am happy she is kept up as well as she is. I just wanted to acknowledge where the Collings Foundation's attitude comes from.

Personally, I would love to see Lil/927 get a proper restoration to combat-ready status. It would just take a lot of money and time that I doubt people are ready to sufficiently give. I have heard that the B-24 is a beast to restore by comparison to the B-17.

To that same end, I would love to know what Kermit has in mind with Joe. She is certainly a diamond-in-the-rough, but it looks like she has been on the backburner ever since she was purchased.

-G
www.gblume.com

[menards]

...never received an actual "restoration" in the classic sense

This is the root of the whole problem with Diamond Lil.

It's tough to call an airplane a bomber when it lacks a bombbay and features a giant cargo door in its side. The Ol 927 project did a great deal toward giving a bomber impression, but she sorta comes off like an actor wearing a costume. (The decidedly non-period nose-art doesn't help either.)

Emotions run high on the B-24 thing and I don't want to come off wrong. I love the old girl and am happy she is kept up as well as she is. I just wanted to acknowledge where the Collings Foundation's attitude comes from.

Personally, I would love to see Lil/927 get a proper restoration to combat-ready status. It would just take a lot of money and time that I doubt people are ready to sufficiently give. I have heard that the B-24 is a beast to restore by comparison to the B-17.

To that same end, I would love to know what Kermit has in mind with Joe. She is certainly a diamond-in-the-rough, but it looks like she has been on the backburner ever since she was purchased.

-G
http://www.gblume.com

As for what Kermit has in mind for “joe”, Kermit’s seems to be real fluid when it comes to his airplanes. His A-26 is/will be the most historically accurate restoration of an invader when complete. His GB racer was in storage for years until he felt like flying it again. Basically, if he wanted to restore the liberator he could. But, my perception is that he’s an eccentric guy that bought it because it was for sale and likes having it in his personal collection. A full restoration on joe might take 20 years and cubic money...

[menards]

...never received an actual "restoration" in the classic sense

I have heard that the B-24 is a beast to restore by comparison to the B-17.

This is probably attributed to the abundance of knowledge and know-how out of the B-17 guys. Collectively as a bunch they probably possess the skillset to turn out new build air frames.

[K5DH]

How come Ol'927 needs 4 new engines at once?

The way I understand it -- someone please correct me if I'm wrong here -- was that they had two engines fail while doing crew training after the first round of heavy maintenance, and a third engine was nearing the end of its life. I know that they purchased four engines, three of which are for the airplane and the fourth is for a spare.

I see Lil every time I'm at the VFM hangar. She's slowly coming together. They're doing a lot of behind-the-scenes work on her, so it isn't visually obvious that big progress is being made. Rumor has it that she will be touring again later this season.

CAF folks... please fill us in on the details if you can. And if I've said anything incorrect here, please correct me.