Warbird Wildcats

AirJimL2 · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 12:42 pm

Reading about the Dimmer Wildcat, I wonder why does the Wildcat seem to fall in place at the very low end of the fighter market? (Along with the Sea Fury...but I can see why it has low demand in the U.S...it is a strange British post war thing...) I've seen quite a few listed on the market in the last few years and they don't move all the quickly, nor are they listed for very high prices. Why the lack of demand? It amazes me to see P-51s, Spitfires, P-40s, P-47s and Corsairs listed in the $1.5M to $2.5m range and Wildcats never seem to cross the $1m barrier. I understand they are comparatively easy to fly for a warbird fighter and also comparatively easy to maintain. And while most of the survivors are homefront FM-2s, the Wildcat has a very important plane in U.S. Naval Aviation history. So why the lack of interest? Only negative I see is the single seat, and the need to crank up the landing gear...

Jim

RickH · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 12:45 pm

Sex sells.

mennie · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 1:43 pm

I would not refuse a Wildcat if offered. But it might have something to do with the landing gear, it looks kind of small. When I was at Duxford VE Day airshow the Wildcat display was canceled because of the crosswind on the field.

Dan K · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 1:56 pm

I think Mennie's nailed it. Remember the old saying...

"There are two kinds of Wildcat pilots: Those who have groundlooped and those who are about to do so."

Also (unlike the P-51, T-28, SNJ, T-34, Sea Fury, etc. crowd), it is difficult to take someone along for a ride in a Wildcat, at least not without some serious modification.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 2:39 pm

Dick Foot's wildcat had 4... yes FOUR ... seats in the back IIRC. The wildcat is just not as sexy as the other fighters you mentioned. It's squat and tubby looking, and has a small engine (relative to the others), and just doesn't zip around the sky with quite the elan of a mustang, corsair or spitfire. I still love them mind you, but it's definitely a working man's fighter.

Cheers. R.

Chad Veich · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 3:30 pm

Could it also be that the Wildcat is much simpler systems wise and so is not as difficult/expensive to restore?

marine air · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 6:16 pm

I would love to fly a Wildcat!! Loops, barrell rolls and hesitation rolls! A great choice to purchase if you are a history nut and want to get paid to bring it to airshows. Joe Frasca did an amazing aerobatic routine in it at Oshkosh once, and so does Howard Pardue. It is kind of a segueway design between the 1930's fighters and the awespme types designed at the end of WWII. Not fair to compare it to latter types.
Groundloops? I don't subscribe to the saying about certain types always groundloop. Many of today's warbird pilots are crybaby momma's boy's that don't want to put in the flight time in the T-6, Stearman, Beech 18, or whatever to fully prepare themselves to be a complete taildragger type. The WW II and Korea era pilots I grew up around and learned to fly from never complained or whined about the groundhandling of the types they flew for a living, in much worse conditions than we will have to fly these types in!
Marine Air!

Raven · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 7:42 pm

It's telling that the aircraft that were there when the chips were down have never been as popular as those that glory-hunted later.

Spitfire survivors are predominately late-model 1944+ versions, the P-51D arrived in combat when the hard work was done (not saying it was easy, but the 'D' Mustang only was involved in offensive, no defensive operations.)

The Hurricane, Wildcat, P-39, P-40 are the aircraft that took the hard knocks, that were there when the going was really tough. Only the P-40 has had some kind of serious increase in numbers in recent years, and as a proportion of those built and the theatres used, it's still small beans. The Hurricane likewise.

Maybe everybody wants to remember when 'we' had the good aircraft and the brave men; rather than the less comfortable period earlier when we had the very brave men and the just-good-enough-to-bad aircraft to hold back the tide.

Wildcat - under-rated.

B-29 Super Fort · **Joined:** Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:12 am **Posts:** 871

Raven wrote:

It's telling that the aircraft that were there when the chips were down have never been as popular as those that glory-hunted later.

Spitfire survivors are predominately late-model 1944+ versions, the P-51D arrived in combat when the hard work was done (not saying it was easy, but the 'D' Mustang only was involved in offensive, no defensive operations.)

The Hurricane, Wildcat, P-39, P-40 are the aircraft that took the hard knocks, that were there when the going was really tough. Only the P-40 has had some kind of serious increase in numbers in recent years, and as a proportion of those built and the theatres used, it's still small beans. The Hurricane likewise.

Maybe everybody wants to remember when 'we' had the good aircraft and the brave men; rather than the less comfortable period earlier when we had the very brave men and the just-good-enough-to-bad aircraft to hold back the tide.

Wildcat - under-rated.

Well very said.

mgeorge51 · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 9:00 pm

I think there are quite a few reasons why the Wildcat is worth less then other fighters. Among the biggies are back seat capability, sex appeal, usability (it is definitely crosswind restricted, and the lack of range for cross country flying. Then comes supply and demand and the demand is pretty low right now. About 8 to 10 years ago the airplanes that were in the war in the beginning jumped up in value if I remember the P-40 and Wildcat even passed the value of Mustangs. But I believe the market didn't take long to realize the above mentioned factors and adjust back in favor of the faster, sleeker long range airplanes that get all the attention.
It is probably very true that the WW2 pilots were better then today's warbird pilot's after all they were screened out untill only the very best were left in pilot training. Typically if you groundlooped your P-40 in fighter training you became a bomber pilot or a navigator. To be a current warbird pilot the biggest hurdle is paying for it.
With insurance being just ridiculously overpriced, even the best of today's pilot's tone down their flying when the weather blows too strong. After all why take the chance with no insurance on hurting a million dollar aircraft.
Also notice how many Wildcats are being flown by their owner's. While most of the Mustang's are owner flown I can't think of many Wildcat's that are regularly flown by their owner's. I really don't think the reversal of value's favoring the early aircraft will happen again. But if it did I would assume that the new build (rebuild) market would readily increase the supply of the relatively simpler early airplanes and bring the market back in line. I think the increase in supply of P-40's will help to hold those prices down for a few years to come. I sure hope so at least as I am saving now.

Forgotten Field · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2006 10:19 pm

Go taxi a Wildcat some time and you'll see why they aren't more popular....

mennie · **Posted:** Fri May 12, 2006 12:55 am

source: http://www.air-and-space.com/20011006%20Chino%20page%201.htm

Quote:

General Motors FM-2 Wildcat, N29FG ground looping. The pilot has kicked the rudder to the right while applying left aileron in an attempt to keep the Wildcat headed straight down the runway. Fortunately, the ground loop happened right at a taxiway intersection, so the FM-2 did not leave the pavement. The solid rubber rear tire disintegrated. The ground crew jacked up the tail and replaced the rear tire in time for the mass formation fly over later in the day.

source: http://rwebs.net/dispatch/output.asp?ArticleID=32

Quote:

The Wildcat's configuration, with a high-mounted mid-wing and narrow, low-pivoted landing gear, cause the airplane to be somewhat unstable and difficult to handle during ground operations, including taxiing, takeoff and landing.

On board the carrier, this did not pose much problem. Taxi distance with the ship headed into the wind for all launches and recoveries, was only a few hundred feet at most. On land, however, the Wildcat earned a reputation as a handful. It could suddenly move into a "ground loop" on takeoff or landing when in the hands of less-experienced pilots or facing strong crosswinds.

The unexpected ground loop is still one of the Wildcat's weak points.

marine air · **Posted:** Fri May 12, 2006 11:55 am

Great photo! The photo proves the pilot induced the groundloop, not the Wildcat!!

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