This is the place where the majority of the warbird (aircraft that have survived military service) discussions will take place. Specialized forums may be added in the new future
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:54 am
"An estimated 10-12 million people attend air shows in the US and Canada every year, according to the International Council of Air Shows, raking in about $110 million for organizers."
Interesting statement above ... if true.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:13 am
Mark Allen M wrote:"An estimated 10-12 million people attend air shows in the US and Canada every year, according to the International Council of Air Shows, raking in about $110 million for organizers."
Interesting statement above ... if true.
So... Roughly $10/head to attend? Not a big surprise.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:30 am
Kyleb wrote:So... Roughly $10/head to attend? Not a big surprise.
Agreed, yet it would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown of the numbers.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:40 am
Mark Allen M wrote:Kyleb wrote:So... Roughly $10/head to attend? Not a big surprise.
Agreed, yet it would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown of the numbers.
Don't forget the impact of sponsorships and other things sold for the benefit of the organizers.
More importantly, how much of that revenue ends up going right back out on expenses, especially the big ones like insurance and security for the event and performers?
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:03 pm
Randy Haskin wrote:Mark Allen M wrote:Kyleb wrote:So... Roughly $10/head to attend? Not a big surprise.
Agreed, yet it would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown of the numbers.
Don't forget the impact of sponsorships and other things sold for the benefit of the organizers.
More importantly, how much of that revenue ends up going right back out on expenses, especially the big ones like insurance and security for the event and performers?
Local show here has been going 5 years. First year they made about $140k profit, 2nd year they lost $60k, 3rd year they lost about $72k, 4th year lost $92k* & this year was a freaking disaster. It's now been 5 months since the show & they still don't have a date for next year. I'd be surprised if they even have a show next year.
*Edited: numbers from 990 forms
Last edited by
ZRX61 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:24 pm
What airshow are you referring to, ZXR61 ?
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:45 pm
pjpahs wrote:What airshow are you referring to, ZXR61 ?
Sounds like the old show at Stinson in San Antonio, Texas.
Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:26 pm
Mark Allen M wrote:"An estimated 10-12 million people attend air shows in the US and Canada every year, according to the International Council of Air Shows, raking in about $110 million for organizers."
Interesting statement above ... if true.
It's plausible, the $110 million being revenues, not profits.
Taken out of context, it might seem to imply misleadingly that the $110M is profits, and that airshow organizers are making a lot of money.
It might be especially plausible to the uninformed that $110M is profits, considering how small the number is. In the U.S., a $110M company is not a big company. The biggest brand of ice cream (currently Halo Top) makes a lot more than that per year in revenues. And that's just one company with one product, not a whole industry.
I googled the phrase, and I see it was from a CNN Travel puff piece about airshows from a few days ago. Definitely not an expose of profiteering in the airshow business.
In any case, I doubt "raking in" was a direct quote from ICAS.
August
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:50 am
Lynn Allen wrote:pjpahs wrote:What airshow are you referring to, ZXR61 ?
Sounds like the old show at Stinson in San Antonio, Texas.
LOL, I'll bet. But I'm glad they happened and that my dad took me to them.
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:25 pm
k5083 wrote:Mark Allen M wrote:"An estimated 10-12 million people attend air shows in the US and Canada every year, according to the International Council of Air Shows, raking in about $110 million for organizers."
Interesting statement above ... if true.
It's plausible, the $110 million being revenues, not profits.
Taken out of context, it might seem to imply misleadingly that the $110M is profits, and that airshow organizers are making a lot of money.
It might be especially plausible to the uninformed that $110M is profits, considering how small the number is. In the U.S., a $110M company is not a big company. The biggest brand of ice cream (currently Halo Top) makes a lot more than that per year in revenues. And that's just one company with one product, not a whole industry.
I googled the phrase, and I see it was from a CNN Travel puff piece about airshows from a few days ago. Definitely not an expose of profiteering in the airshow business.
In any case, I doubt "raking in" was a direct quote from ICAS.
August
None of it is "profits" per se... since, for the most part, we are talking about "non-profit" organizations.
With regard to the airshow industry as a money generator... I went to WWII Weekend this year. It was $32 at the gate to get in. I then paid $20 to get inside Doc. I bought a few SWAG (Stuff We All Get) items... a couple of waters, some food, and my out of pocket expense was over $100 on the day. I'm just one person. Now I looked at the ride aircraft that were going non-stop all day..... a ride on one of those was $500+ each. Since you said it yourself that $110 million isnt a big number... im guessing that is the number after all expenses are paid out. the money that is being put back into the museums and aircraft. Im also willing to bet that 80% of that is generated by the biggest dozen or so shows....with the remainder making up much smaller amounts.
Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:05 pm
pjpahs wrote:What airshow are you referring to, ZXR61 ?
LA County. This year they had bad weather to deal with the week leading up to the show & were bringing in truck loads of gravel to *pave* the swamp by the VIP tents on the Saturday morning. Obviously weather is out of their control.... but...They search everyone's bags going in, can't bring snacks or food etc. They had 5 food vendors for an expected crowd of 40,000 (looked more like 4000). Charging $10 each for hotdogs & churros. Two hours in line for food. People were leaving before the flying even started. Didn't do any advertising/media interviews until the day before the show. The one station that did mention the show on the Friday said the Blue Angels were appearing, they were in Texas that weekend. They actually had lawyers go after people for promoting the show on FB because they apparently *spent a lot of money on a social media presence & need to judge how well it's working*. Looks like the people running it have maybe 5 people who know what the hell they're doing & another 40 who don't. On the upside, the Ramp Rat crew were on the ball.
Another issue was the way they answered questions about airshow acts. People would ask if the Blues or Tbirds were appearing in '18 & they would say "the F22 is appearing" without stating the Blues or Tbirds weren't. It came across as being deliberately vague.
Edited figures in earlier post after reviewing 990 forms.
Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:36 pm
With regard to the airshow industry as a money generator... I went to WWII Weekend this year. It was $32 at the gate to get in. I then paid $20 to get inside Doc. I bought a few SWAG (Stuff We All Get) items... a couple of waters, some food, and my out of pocket expense was over $100 on the day. I'm just one person. Now I looked at the ride aircraft that were going non-stop all day..... a ride on one of those was $500+ each. Since you said it yourself that $110 million isnt a big number... im guessing that is the number after all expenses are paid out. the money that is being put back into the museums and aircraft. Im also willing to bet that 80% of that is generated by the biggest dozen or so shows....with the remainder making up much smaller amounts.[/quote]
Absolutely right, I think the shows that are having a tough time are the general or local shows.
The top 10, and especially those that focus on Warbirds and vintage Aviation, seem to be surviving okay
It's not surprising due to the decline of interest in Aviation among the general population.
Mainly we "Airshow Nerds" keeping shows alive today
Tom Bowers
Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:16 pm
Not to throw too much of a wrench in this discussion but keep in mind that some of the largest shows are military open houses that do NOT charge for admission. So if 10-12 million attend every year and not all of them are paying then I'd say majority of that is sponsor money, Easily. Admission alone has never carried a show for multiple years.....
Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:50 pm
ZRX61 wrote: On the upside, the Ramp Rat crew were on the ball.
Thanks for noticing! We try to do the best with what we are given.
Jerry
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:49 am
I would think that given enough time, an annual show is going to lose money one year eventually.
I live near the venue for the Olympic Airshow in Olympia, WA and for a few years, the weather really didn't cooperate.
Usually held on Father's Day weekend, we've had rain there a few times and it's actually been quite cold a few times in recent years (one year, some of the guys in my WW2 living history group were actually wearing the heavy GI wool overcoats in the mornings). The last few years were decent for that time of year, though.
My point is that though I have no clue of the actual final tally, I'd be willing to bet they didn't rake in the cash for more than a few of those shows.
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