Warbird Information Exchange

No, that ship has sailed and it's not going to happen. The NMUSAF, in an attempt to sabotage the Collings foundation efforts, cut the engine mount bolts on all USAF owned F-105's which effectively will prevent any F-105 from ever taking to the air again.

If half the stories I've heard about the NMUSAF and the USAF are accurate regarding the Collings Phantom, that would not surprise me.

If the aviation community, the part of the public that supports history preservation, or the media (if they weren't afraid of aircraft and largely anti-military) knew about it, there would be heck to pay.
In short, the bureaucrats are running the asylum...any days of mere people having power are long over.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Yes, it's a real travesty. I think years from now in the future, that decision to permanently ground all F-105's will be seriously derided by future leaders at the NMUSAF.

On the bright side, though, look at the Naval Museum. They've had a complete change of heart about allowing some of the Lake Michigan birds to go into civilian ownership.

Strange times, when each museum did a complete 180 from their previous stances in the last decade or two.

As much as I love warbirds, I do wonder what the scene would look like if the US had a much easier path for folks to obtain, certify and fly ex-military complex heavy jets. There are a very few operations that can truly do things right to safely restore, maintain and fly such aircraft. For every Collins type outfit there would likely be several backyard builders that would get in over their heads. Even well intentioned and well funded organizations might try to cut corners (the South African EE Lightning). Even one incident could be disastrous for everyone involved, with much questioning, hand-wringing, litigation and blame.

I do wish things were easier for great folks like the Collins foundation, and knee jerk reactions like spiking engines or cutting engine mounts does not help, but I do think it is a good thing that folks can't go to the DRMO and pick up a Phantom or F-105....No not a nanny, but where to draw the line is a tough question. I would indeed like to see a certain very few given such opportunity.

You only to look at whats happened here in the UK since the Hawker Hunter crash at Shoreham Airshow in 2015 when 11 people were killed.

What is so special about these bolts?

I don't think it was so much bolts as the engine mounts....basically, they damaged the airframe intentionally... Not something exactly preservation oriented and pretty short sighted....
When it comes to operating such aircraft, instead of deciding "no one shall have it", the better way to go would be to establish a strong set of requirements...ie: higher insurance, operating agreements...which would require strong maintenance and training programs, etc.
Thus, you limit the field for potential operators and minimize the number of potential accidents....
Even so, the fact that Russian and even British aircraft, that are equal to or more advanced than American types, are relatively easily available....makes it obvious that this is a control issue and not a safety or liability issue....I would say it's govt over reach and needs to stop, considering the people's taxes paid for this equipment...it should be available, with minimal limits for civil use....

The bolts weren't the issue. The engine mounts themselves are cut on all survivors. The single seat airframes that were remaining at Randolph AFB, were intended to be used for spares, especially the engines. J75's are not very easily found as it turns out, but spikes were indeed driven through those particular examples.



Much of the opposition of the F-105 stemmed from the F-4. I've been involved with the airplane since it was acquired. What stories have you heard? You can PM me if you'd rather.

Ah yes, the engine mounts, not the bolts! I stand corrected.

The whole 105 saga still makes me mad. Did Collings ever get ahold of an airframe? Or would that have taken another act of Congress? I know I'm not alone, but I would have absolutely loved to see an airworthy Thud. My guess is the folks who fought the Phantom acquisition had their feathers all ruffled and decided to make certain there would be no potentially airworthy F-105s from which to choose. Too bad we never sold them to any other countries...

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I'm looking for that buried Corsair(s) that I can dig up, pressure wash, and fly!

I read that due to the 105 and 106 being nuclear capable, the gubmint would not allow them to ever have air under their wings again. I am with so many of you though in that I would LOVE to see either or both airborne once again!

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Earn my respect and never lose it.
Demand my respect and never gain it. -Me

...just another plane dreamer.

That argument is utter, complete non-sense. It's just the USAF exerting control and not wanting us "unwashed masses of civilians" having access to 60 plus year old technology.

If allowing so-called "nuclear capable" aircraft to fly then why do they allow:

-2 nuclear capable B-29's to fly?
-a nuclear capable F-8 Crusader to fly?
-several nuclear capable F-100's to fly?
-several nuclear capable F-104's to fly?
-several nuclear capable A-4's to fly?
-a whole host of former Soviet aircraft to fly, including front-line service Mig-23's, Mig-29's and Su-27 Flanker aircraft to fly - most of which are nuclear capable?

By the way, I got to see the F-105 fly many times in my youth when I was little. It is an amazing aircraft and by far, my most favorite to watch fly. It had an absolutely amazing unique sound when it flew and sounded so badass. It is perhaps the only aircraft in existence that has more "badassery" than the F-4!

Perhaps Ryan Harris can chime in here and add to my hazy memory, but I believe they had the opportunity to buy a single seat F-105 and fly it, but they weren't interested because it didn't have a second seat. I believe the whole purpose was to sell rides in the back seat like the F-4 they have. The maintenance cost of keeping a single seat Viet Nam era afterburning aircraft operational is enormous and a huge money losing proposition unless they can sell rides and/or flight training in the aircraft to defray the huge operating costs.

No F-105 was ever acquired. An Act of Congress was indeed the plan all along, but the whole process was hoped to be achieved with the blessing of the USAF, NMUSAF, and Congress. The F-4 and TA-4 were acquired the same way. There is literally no other way to acquire these airframes free and clear without an Act of Congress. Some people were on board, but the Director of the NMUSAF would not budge. This is the same director that fought the CAF over the F-82. All surviving airframes are under control of the NMUSAF, so there was not an option to purchase a single seat F-105D. The goal was a F-105F/G, with the original desired airframe being the last example still at AMARC. It had been in the desert and spray latted since its retirement. Based on our history with the F-4 and TA-4, those airframes still need work, but are remarkably preserved. That airframe was quickly given to the Evergreen museum and is still there now. I'm sure that rides/flight training in the 105 would've been one of the goals, but the second seat is also nice to help transport ground crew with the airplane for out of town events. Rides/flight training are a huge component to offsetting costs of these jets, and we are currently capable of flights in the F-4, TA-4, Me-262, and Huey. We hope to have the F-100 available at some point as well.

Only one F-105G "escaped" USAF control, and that was the airframe built up by a gentleman in Reno, and now belongs to Paul Allen. I believe FHC had intentions of flying the airplane at one point in time, but the NMUSAF stepped in there as well, and I'm fairly certain that now have control of it too. It is a beautifully restored static, but I don't believe we'll ever see it come alive.

I agree. Granted it happened 47 years ago, but the crash of an F-86 in Sacramento where people in an ice cream palor died gave the jet warbird community a real lasting black eye.