Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:27 pm
Digger wrote:"Phil Buckley.
How about a report on the two Peter Smythe / Reevers registered Spitfires?
BS234 A58-95 VH-DQU
BS219 A58-84 VH-BZR
Presumably if they are registered and in the public domain there must be some extant material?
PeterA"
Hi Peter
I understand you are still trying to find out about our Spitfire being BS219 as per official records here in Australia. The second Spitfire we had was transferred to its new owner quite a few years ago, but you know all this because I have emailed you these details before and you have got these CASA registrations from your own research. The motivation behind your post is nefarious. You were advised of these facts but decided to publish otherwise in your latest publication. Unlike another collector we both know of here in Australia, our Spit has something more than a questionable armour plate and attempts to secure images via third parties is fruitless. As has been stated, many Spitfire owners here in Australia remain very secretive and I would suggest your post justifies that.
Digger,
Nefarious. Hardly. Just a simple question to Phil Buckley - 'Reevers Warbirds Media Director'.
Yes the sale and registration of BS234 VH-DQU transfer on the 24 March 2016 to a near neighbour was duly noted.
Also noted was that VH-BZR & VH-ZPX appear to be the same Spitfire.
...my 'latest publication', if you are referring to the co-authoring of 'Spitfire Survivors Volumes I & II', were published in 2010 and 2013 respectively.
Just trying to get it right for a possible update some time in the future.
PeterA
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:28 pm
[quote="PeterA"][quote="Digger"]"Phil Buckley.
How about a report on the two Peter Smythe / Reevers registered Spitfires?
BS234 A58-95 VH-DQU
BS219 A58-84 VH-BZR
Presumably if they are registered and in the public domain there must be some extant material?
PeterA"
Hi Peter
I understand you are still trying to find out about our Spitfire being BS219 as per official records here in Australia. The second Spitfire we had was transferred to its new owner quite a few years ago, but you know all this because I have emailed you these details before and you have got these CASA registrations from your own research. The motivation behind your post is nefarious. You were advised of these facts but decided to publish otherwise in your latest publication. Unlike another collector we both know of here in Australia, our Spit has something more than a questionable armour plate and attempts to secure images via third parties is fruitless. As has been stated, many Spitfire owners here in Australia remain very secretive and I would suggest your post justifies that.[/quote]
Digger,
Nefarious. Hardly. Just a simple question to Phil Buckley - [b]'Reevers Warbirds Media Director'[/b].
Yes the sale and registration of BS234 VH-DQU transfer on the 24 March 2016 to a near neighbour was duly noted.
Also noted was that VH-BZR & VH-ZPX appear to be the same Spitfire.
...my 'latest publication', if you are referring to the co-authoring of 'Spitfire Survivors Volumes I & II', were published in 2010 and 2013 respectively.
Just trying to get it right for a possible update some time in the future.
PeterA[/quote]
PeterA you are a running fool and your mate here downunder is certainly Bubba.
How about a report on the two Peter Smythe / Reevers registered Spitfires?
BS234 A58-95 VH-DQU
BS219 A58-84 VH-BZR
Presumably if they are registered and in the public domain there must be some extant material?
PeterA"
Hi Peter
I understand you are still trying to find out about our Spitfire being BS219 as per official records here in Australia. The second Spitfire we had was transferred to its new owner quite a few years ago, but you know all this because I have emailed you these details before and you have got these CASA registrations from your own research. The motivation behind your post is nefarious. You were advised of these facts but decided to publish otherwise in your latest publication. Unlike another collector we both know of here in Australia, our Spit has something more than a questionable armour plate and attempts to secure images via third parties is fruitless. As has been stated, many Spitfire owners here in Australia remain very secretive and I would suggest your post justifies that.[/quote]
Digger,
Nefarious. Hardly. Just a simple question to Phil Buckley - [b]'Reevers Warbirds Media Director'[/b].
Yes the sale and registration of BS234 VH-DQU transfer on the 24 March 2016 to a near neighbour was duly noted.
Also noted was that VH-BZR & VH-ZPX appear to be the same Spitfire.
...my 'latest publication', if you are referring to the co-authoring of 'Spitfire Survivors Volumes I & II', were published in 2010 and 2013 respectively.
Just trying to get it right for a possible update some time in the future.
PeterA[/quote]
PeterA you are a running fool and your mate here downunder is certainly Bubba.
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:17 pm
[quote="JohnB"][quote="quemerford"]This is starting to feel like a TIGHAR thread; can anyone explain the issue with these Spitfires and/or Reevers? I'm not too good at Cryptic.[/quote]
I questioned some of their PR stuff, whoever does their posting here and in the other forum seem more focused on self promotion than warbird history.
As an example, [i]every[/i] post began with the group's name...every time. Hardly subtle and more like TIGHER than the low key approach taken by Vulcan or many other recovery groups.
Also, awhile back they were trumpeting a new B-17 "project", which I [i]undetstand[/i] is really nothing more than a box of parts (I would submit a box of parts may constitute a Spitfire project, not so a B-17 or other large type).
I don't know anything about their Spitfire projects...
However, based on an article in [i]FlyPast[/i] a year or so ago, they did a lot of work recovering a B-25 from some report place, so I'll gladly give them credit for that.
That's one more hulk than [i]I've[/i] recovered!
I wish them luck with it and hope they're on good terms with the B-25 specialists at Chino...they'll need a boxcar full of parts.[/quote]
Hi JohnB
sorry for missing this earlier but I have focussed on responding to the posts by Forrest.
I am not familiar with TIGHAR and their media practices but I do agree with some of your comments. Thanks for acknowledging our work on the B-25 which, if some do not know, was abandoned and rotting away prior to our (Reevers) recovery of its remains. The aircraft had been sold and was stripped of all its internal parts and fittings. The owner at that time was restoring another B-25 in South America and that was the most economical way for them to secure parts. For us it provided a great opportunity to bring a B-25, albeit incomplete, to Australia. A very touchy issue for many Australian Warbird enthusiasts, who feel, quite rightly I think, they had been robbed of a very nice B-25 that had been brought to Australia, added to the flying circuit then sold off without input, it seems, from any interested groups here. So Australia has gone from having a partial B-25, aka Hawg Mouth in the Darwin Aviation Centre to having our B-25J, Hawg Mouth and Mississippi Dream, being the wreck we recovered and a genuine Dutch Australian combat Vet. And I think this is the point I am trying to express here and please do not think I am trying to big note Reevers or something, just telling it how it is. We have and do communicate with the group at Chino and they played a very important part in getting our B-25 ready for its unveiling in 2017 when we combined that release with the celebration of the 75th year of the formation of the Dutch-Australian 18th Squadron, so we owe them a few beers.
So taking this point and applying it to our other efforts, including the B-17 'project'. You are correct in that the contents of this project would not fill a trailer, a semi trailer. It would fill a 20 foot shipping container tho and the term project maybe a cultural difference than anything else. Our B-17 project is to collect as much of this aircraft type as possible with the intention of displaying it or making it available to an Australian based B-17 historical group. So we are applying the same principal here as the B-25. In Australia at this present time, as best I know, there is no effort being made to establish a B-17 project here despite the type playing a significant role in the defence of Australia and despite there being quite a number of wrecks in our region. So our 'project' will continue to grow as we locate, recover, take possession of donations for etc. But we can say that we have provided the foundation for a potential rebuild project. This takes Australia's B-17 status from zero to, well something more than zero.
With regards to my responses to the Spitfire debate I can finish with this, a number of years ago, when I was a very new to this warbird recovery stuff I foolishly believed all collectors where nice people. I "loaned" some MkV Spitfire items to a well known collector here, so he could have them identified. This included a data plate bearing the serial of the aircraft. I know now I was dumb. Luckily for me you can identify a Spitfire from several locations and in several different ways. Please note I am not a Spitfire fan but there is a principal here. After requesting the return of my items, I was told "no" a deal had apparently been struck which was news to me. This was not the last time I did something dopey but I have learned. But this gets to why we or I am reluctant to publish specifics about our collections. We've had the old "no pics no plane' statements thrown at us and we can deal with that. We have also experienced having recovery sites stripped by people who have followed us and sadly we have been robbed by people who subscribe to the rule that possession is 9/10's of the law. In one case we had to take a colleague to Court to recover costs because they stole from us. But when people step into the public arena and make veiled statements about our activities etc, we must respond as I am sure many others here would agree because if you don't, then the written word, if not challenged, will become fact.
I would also like to point out that a search of this site will furnish other examples of dumb things not to do and other examples of people having issues with data plates etc so I know I am not alone.
I questioned some of their PR stuff, whoever does their posting here and in the other forum seem more focused on self promotion than warbird history.
As an example, [i]every[/i] post began with the group's name...every time. Hardly subtle and more like TIGHER than the low key approach taken by Vulcan or many other recovery groups.
Also, awhile back they were trumpeting a new B-17 "project", which I [i]undetstand[/i] is really nothing more than a box of parts (I would submit a box of parts may constitute a Spitfire project, not so a B-17 or other large type).
I don't know anything about their Spitfire projects...
However, based on an article in [i]FlyPast[/i] a year or so ago, they did a lot of work recovering a B-25 from some report place, so I'll gladly give them credit for that.
That's one more hulk than [i]I've[/i] recovered!
I wish them luck with it and hope they're on good terms with the B-25 specialists at Chino...they'll need a boxcar full of parts.[/quote]
Hi JohnB
sorry for missing this earlier but I have focussed on responding to the posts by Forrest.
I am not familiar with TIGHAR and their media practices but I do agree with some of your comments. Thanks for acknowledging our work on the B-25 which, if some do not know, was abandoned and rotting away prior to our (Reevers) recovery of its remains. The aircraft had been sold and was stripped of all its internal parts and fittings. The owner at that time was restoring another B-25 in South America and that was the most economical way for them to secure parts. For us it provided a great opportunity to bring a B-25, albeit incomplete, to Australia. A very touchy issue for many Australian Warbird enthusiasts, who feel, quite rightly I think, they had been robbed of a very nice B-25 that had been brought to Australia, added to the flying circuit then sold off without input, it seems, from any interested groups here. So Australia has gone from having a partial B-25, aka Hawg Mouth in the Darwin Aviation Centre to having our B-25J, Hawg Mouth and Mississippi Dream, being the wreck we recovered and a genuine Dutch Australian combat Vet. And I think this is the point I am trying to express here and please do not think I am trying to big note Reevers or something, just telling it how it is. We have and do communicate with the group at Chino and they played a very important part in getting our B-25 ready for its unveiling in 2017 when we combined that release with the celebration of the 75th year of the formation of the Dutch-Australian 18th Squadron, so we owe them a few beers.
So taking this point and applying it to our other efforts, including the B-17 'project'. You are correct in that the contents of this project would not fill a trailer, a semi trailer. It would fill a 20 foot shipping container tho and the term project maybe a cultural difference than anything else. Our B-17 project is to collect as much of this aircraft type as possible with the intention of displaying it or making it available to an Australian based B-17 historical group. So we are applying the same principal here as the B-25. In Australia at this present time, as best I know, there is no effort being made to establish a B-17 project here despite the type playing a significant role in the defence of Australia and despite there being quite a number of wrecks in our region. So our 'project' will continue to grow as we locate, recover, take possession of donations for etc. But we can say that we have provided the foundation for a potential rebuild project. This takes Australia's B-17 status from zero to, well something more than zero.
With regards to my responses to the Spitfire debate I can finish with this, a number of years ago, when I was a very new to this warbird recovery stuff I foolishly believed all collectors where nice people. I "loaned" some MkV Spitfire items to a well known collector here, so he could have them identified. This included a data plate bearing the serial of the aircraft. I know now I was dumb. Luckily for me you can identify a Spitfire from several locations and in several different ways. Please note I am not a Spitfire fan but there is a principal here. After requesting the return of my items, I was told "no" a deal had apparently been struck which was news to me. This was not the last time I did something dopey but I have learned. But this gets to why we or I am reluctant to publish specifics about our collections. We've had the old "no pics no plane' statements thrown at us and we can deal with that. We have also experienced having recovery sites stripped by people who have followed us and sadly we have been robbed by people who subscribe to the rule that possession is 9/10's of the law. In one case we had to take a colleague to Court to recover costs because they stole from us. But when people step into the public arena and make veiled statements about our activities etc, we must respond as I am sure many others here would agree because if you don't, then the written word, if not challenged, will become fact.
I would also like to point out that a search of this site will furnish other examples of dumb things not to do and other examples of people having issues with data plates etc so I know I am not alone.
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:20 am
PeterA you are a running fool and your mate here downunder is certainly Bubba.
For the benefit of the world wide audience.
Running fool - a person devoted to a particular activity
In gun culture, "Bubba" is a term used for a person who permanently alters or modifies historic firearms, with no regard for its historical value.
Time will tell.
For the benefit of the world wide audience.
Running fool - a person devoted to a particular activity
In gun culture, "Bubba" is a term used for a person who permanently alters or modifies historic firearms, with no regard for its historical value.
Time will tell.
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:09 am
[quote="PeterA"][i]PeterA you are a running fool and your mate here downunder is certainly Bubba.[/i]
For the benefit of the world wide audience.
Running fool - a person devoted to a particular activity
In gun culture, "Bubba" is a term used for a person who permanently alters or modifies historic firearms, with no regard for its historical value.
Time will tell.[/quote]
For the benefit of the world wide audience.
Running fool - a person devoted to a particular activity
In gun culture, "Bubba" is a term used for a person who permanently alters or modifies historic firearms, with no regard for its historical value.
Time will tell.
[/quote]
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:10 am
Many thanks to those who have contacted me with offers of information.
Particularly interesting are the circumstances of this matter discussed on this forum
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthrea ... 606&page=2
Particularly interesting are the circumstances of this matter discussed on this forum
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthrea ... 606&page=2
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:46 am
Peter/Digger,
Rest assured that when Spitfire RK858 moves out of contractor storage for restoration to flight for a new owner, it will be my pleasure to see its Cockpit Constructor's Plate riveted back where it belongs.
PeterA
Rest assured that when Spitfire RK858 moves out of contractor storage for restoration to flight for a new owner, it will be my pleasure to see its Cockpit Constructor's Plate riveted back where it belongs.
PeterA
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:19 pm
Digger wrote:Many thanks to those who have contacted me with offers of information.
Particularly interesting are the circumstances of this matter discussed on this forum
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthrea ... 606&page=2
Interesting: I think Peter has displayed honourable intentions and the loss (described as theft) of data plates in exchange, though regrettable, seems beyond his control or responsibility.
I can see why folks might be upset at the loss of two valuable artefacts (I would be too) but that would seem to be a matter for someone within the US Postal Service: any other discussion on individual motives or actions would seem to be conjecture. But Peter has made a promise to return the Spitfire plate to its rightful home and that speaks volumes.
It's been an interesting thread so many thanks for all participants for taking the time to explain.
More importantly for me is that RK858 would have made a fantastic exhibit in un-restored state. I imagine that chance has gone and yet again, the take-away for me is the heavy responsibility we as a movement bear for the conservation of historical artefacts. We should also recognise that they have a value beyond their monetary worth.
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:00 pm
Can the SPITFIRE SURVIVOR books still be purchased?
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:26 am
[quote="PeterA"]Peter/Digger,
Rest assured that when Spitfire RK858 moves out of contractor storage for restoration to flight for a new owner, it will be my pleasure to see its Cockpit Constructor's Plate riveted back where it belongs.
PeterA[/quote]
and another piece to this puzzle, image in this forum is of our missing plate. I wonder what the meta data would reveal.
https://forum.keypublishing.com/forum/h ... nfo-please
Rest assured that when Spitfire RK858 moves out of contractor storage for restoration to flight for a new owner, it will be my pleasure to see its Cockpit Constructor's Plate riveted back where it belongs.
PeterA[/quote]
and another piece to this puzzle, image in this forum is of our missing plate. I wonder what the meta data would reveal.
https://forum.keypublishing.com/forum/h ... nfo-please
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:11 am
EW439 wrote:Can the SPITFIRE SURVIVOR books still be purchased?
The two volumes are long out of print on what was a short order production run.
People loved the book with its 5 star reviews but they didn't like the price.
In round numbers combined, it was 1000 pages and 2000 images, which was actually quite good value on a page basis.
They come up on eBay occasionally at asking prices of £150 - £300 per volume.
PeterA
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:59 am
Peter, You have certainly saved a few aircraft over the years. A shame that armchair experts get in the way slinging mud. I am one of those at times, but with good reason when I do.
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:45 pm
Thats the most important thing is saving the airframe.If the B25 didnt get saved she would be rotting away still.People are after the same thing with all airframes.Its just people have different ways of doing it.
Re: Reevers Warbirds - B-25 Mitchell to be sold off
Mon May 06, 2019 1:44 pm
Peter and crew have done a marvelous job restoring Pulk. My crew and I took her apart in Franklin, Va., and you cannot believe the shape she was in after sitting a decade or two outside, a mile from a paper mill. All of us were choking from the fumes from the mill when the winds blew the fouled air our direction....