How did the P-40's get from Buffalo, NY, to New Zealand?

Noha307 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:54 pm

Buz wrote:

Hi Noah307

All of your aircraft were actually slated to go to Australia, but for some reason were diverted to New Zealand (yet to find out why), two primary source docs confirm that the aircraft were for Australia. All were sent to the United Nations Depot Buffalo between 18th Jan to 21st Jan 1943 before being dispatched by land to their POE - strong possibility they departed New York as I haven't found any further information about being transshipped anywhere else.

I base the thought that it was from New York as Port Alma seems to have gone back to Balboa with what looks like notes going to Glasgow in in Aug 1942 however the card is very difficult to read, and there seems to be no further trace until Nov 1943 in Australian Waters, so there is no positive proof of where she picked these aircraft up from (I haven't looked for the ship log but its not my area of interest).

Buz

This is excellent! Thank you so much!

Now I'm even more curious: Where do you find this stuff?

4RG.I.'S · **Posted:** Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:45 pm

Noha307 wrote:

Buz wrote:

Hi Noah307

All of your aircraft were actually slated to go to Australia, but for some reason were diverted to New Zealand (yet to find out why), two primary source docs confirm that the aircraft were for Australia. All were sent to the United Nations Depot Buffalo between 18th Jan to 21st Jan 1943 before being dispatched by land to their POE - strong possibility they departed New York as I haven't found any further information about being transshipped anywhere else.

I base the thought that it was from New York as Port Alma seems to have gone back to Balboa with what looks like notes going to Glasgow in in Aug 1942 however the card is very difficult to read, and there seems to be no further trace until Nov 1943 in Australian Waters, so there is no positive proof of where she picked these aircraft up from (I haven't looked for the ship log but its not my area of interest).

Buz

This is excellent! Thank you so much!

Now I'm even more curious: Where do you find this stuff?

Yes, excellent to say the least! :supz:

And I'll add to the curiosity of where you found this amazing info! :drink3:

And,... do you have files on other aircraft?

Buz · **Posted:** Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:28 am

Noha307 and 4RG.I's

My data comes from 25 years of P-40 research including a large number of primary source documents, such as IARC, Factory records, Unit histories, logbooks, shipping data etc.

I don't have everything, there are still some significant gaps that I'd like to fill, and flesh out (such as names of the ship which cargo was P-40's to Russia, code/serial match ups are always a problem area, Russian P-40 operations in other areas than the Northern Front etc), as well as finding pictures of them (I have a large number but the holy grail would be a picture of every P-40 airframe (a pipe dream but you have to have hope)).

I only concentrate on the airframes, and only limited info on the pilots that flew them (unless the information becomes available as a bi-product of the research, such as a logbook extract).

@4RG.I's
Not sure what you mean by other aircraft? - other P-40's or other types? - if other types, I'm sorry I concentrate only on P-40's although during this period I have picked up various photos and documents of other types, so what I have would be very hit and miss for other aircraft types.

Buz

4RG.I.'S · **Posted:** Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:38 am

Buz wrote:

Noha307 and 4RG.I's

My data comes from 25 years of P-40 research including a large number of primary source documents, such as IARC, Factory records, Unit histories, logbooks, shipping data etc.

I don't have everything, there are still some significant gaps that I'd like to fill, and flesh out (such as names of the ship which cargo was P-40's to Russia, code/serial match ups are always a problem area, Russian P-40 operations in other areas than the Northern Front etc), as well as finding pictures of them (I have a large number but the holy grail would be a picture of every P-40 airframe (a pipe dream but you have to have hope)).

I only concentrate on the airframes, and only limited info on the pilots that flew them (unless the information becomes available as a bi-product of the research, such as a logbook extract).

@4RG.I's
Not sure what you mean by other aircraft? - other P-40's or other types? - if other types, I'm sorry I concentrate only on P-40's although during this period I have picked up various photos and documents of other types, so what I have would be very hit and miss for other aircraft types.

Buz

Buz,
Thanks for the added info and clarification. My inquiry was a stab in the dark for anything I can learn about the WWII era, the great people that were involved and the logistics of getting everything done. The history that is documented and held in different people's personal storage may contain something that a descendant or distant family member may be searching for. While my specific search is for P-51D-20NA history, I greatly appreciate anything from that time in history that people are willing to share.

Buz · **Posted:** Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:06 am

4RG.I.'s

No worries, I'm one those odd researchers that thinks if someone wants the info I'm happy to share (unless its a private record i.e someones logbook, as they normally come with a please don't share).
I like to be able to give answers to questions especially other researchers and family members, and quite often I get info in return, such as Noha407's posts, as I had never seen the RNZAF Aircraft register before and the engine numbers (nice bit of info to add to my databases).

People need only ask.

Buz

avenger2504 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:36 pm

Noha307 wrote:

Buz wrote:

Dave

Funny you should ask about that ship and those aircraft

I have them to San Francisco by rail between the 9th and 11th May 1943. My shipping data states John W MacKay (Aus Records also had the name wrong as they called it John W McKay but was pencil ammended)

Details Liberty EC2 - Painted Grey Funnel, Hull and Superstructure. Owners Grace Line Inc NY (Signal KXSQ). Australian records show her into Melbourne Ex Auckland (depart 29 Jul 1943, arrive 06 Aug 1943).

Buz

This is excellent!

Would you happen have similar information on the ship Port Alma?[1][2] It delivered at least 11 P-40Ms to New Zealand on 21 May 1943.

If not, could you explain how you found the information in the above post?

Looking at ADF Serials I see the P40Ms described here on the shipping manifest were numbered NZ3109 to NZ3119..........and of them one survives namely NZ3119 (43-5813) and is airworthy in RNZAF markings in the US with the Tri-State Warbird Museum.

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:44 pm

avenger2504 wrote:

Looking at ADF Serials I see the P40Ms described here on the shipping manifest were numbered NZ3109 to NZ3119..........and of them one survives namely NZ3119 (43-5813) and is airworthy in RNZAF markings in the US with the Tri-State Warbird Museum.

Take a look at the signature on Noha's posts.

avenger2504 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:47 pm

Ha ha no wonder he is interested in a delivery of P40Ms to New Zealand!

Buz · **Posted:** Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:22 am

As an overall this is the information I have for 43-5813 from the factory records (just to close the loop)

Ship No: 1711
Customer:Army
Type: P-40M
Mfg No: 27501
Customer No: 43-5813
Delivery date: 20 Jan 1943
Invoice date: 20 Jan 1943
Acceptance date: 20 Jan 1943
Destination: Australia

Think we've covered the time from leaving the factory until delivery to the RNZAF, so wont add that again.

Buz

jdvoss · **Posted:** Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:01 pm

When these aircraft were un-crated in NZ, Australia, et.al. were they marked with typical USAAF markings or were they received in primer paint ready for local scheme and insignia ?? In regard to crating of aircraft keep in mind that the near majority of Waco CG-4 gliders produced (13,000+) were mostly crated at the factory for delivery to the war front.

JDV
www.fuselagecodes.com

Noha307 · **Posted:** Wed May 01, 2019 2:13 pm

A quick question: Those cards listing the ship's trips, what are they called?

Dave Homewood wrote:

Take a look at the signature on Noha's posts.

Thanks for reminding me, I needed to update that!

Buz wrote:

as well as finding pictures of them (I have a large number but the holy grail would be a picture of every P-40 airframe (a pipe dream but you have to have hope)).

A picture of every airframe, you say?

Attachment:

File comment: Believed to be NZ3119 in the scrapyard

P-40 in Scrapyard.jpg [ 120.18 KiB | Viewed 813 times ]

Unfortunately, I don't know who took this photo or otherwise I would probably say feel free to use it.

Buz wrote:

As an overall this is the information I have for 43-5813 from the factory records (just to close the loop)

Ship No: 1711
Customer:Army
Type: P-40M
Mfg No: 27501
Customer No: 43-5813
Delivery date: 20 Jan 1943
Invoice date: 20 Jan 1943
Acceptance date: 20 Jan 1943
Destination: Australia

Thanks, at first I thought that you were looking at the same aircraft record card below, but the fact you included some slightly different information leads me to believe not.

Attachment:

File comment: Aircraft record card for 43-5813 from the Air Force Historical Research Agency

ARC 43-5813.jpg [ 249.92 KiB | Viewed 813 times ]

I assume that you're aware of this already, but Charles Darby published a booklet in April 1962 titled Warhawks that included the list below.

Attachment:

File comment: Listing Over One Hundred Curtiss P40's

List of P-40s in Scrapyard.jpg [ 259.37 KiB | Viewed 813 times ]

Buz · **Posted:** Thu May 02, 2019 4:12 am

Hi Noah

My factory info comes from this: Although it states to 1940 it actually continues til 1945 with the final aircraft appearing in the book being C-46 44-78778

Buz

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How did the P-40's get from Buffalo, NY, to New Zealand?

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