Warbird Information Exchange

Ahh a beacon of hope in the vast sea of darkness.

I sure hope a lot of people read the 2nd article.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Wouldn't those undertaking this recovery have all appropriate documents already, current and historical? I am sure they already have lawyers and so on in place so let them get on with it.

Dave

Dear Mr Rob Rohr.

Did anyone ask for your help? David Tallichet? Anyone else?

No.

Do you represent David Tallichet better than his currently appointed agents and himself? Do you represent anyone else?

No and no.

Did David get you involved in the operation earlier?

No.

May I politely suggest that the best thing we can all do is to shut up and let the guys on the spot deal with what is a fluid and tricky situation. The don't need help, they just need a lot less of a media and enthusiast spotlight on the situation. It's a classic one false move and the whole thing goes whahoonie shaped, and you are not Tom Cruise. (You are taller for as start.)

Go and do something else, and that's the biggest favour you can do them.

There will be no points for a Sixth Cavalry arrival here.

You are indeed entitled to do any number of things. That doesn't mean they are helpful or useful. Some people suggesting here that you cool it and don't act is not the sign of a dictatorship in the USA; the sign of such a thing is that you'd have 'been shot trying to escape' by now if it were a dictatorship. That's a badge of honor if you wish.

You are welcome to argue or abuse; I'm not interested, and I've already seen what you've got to say.

Just ask yourself: "Would David thank me for getting involved at this late stage?"

Regards,

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Raven

I wonder if the plane would have been safely on its way to shelter by now had that opportunistic "heads up" not been phoned in to the otherwise historically oblivious PNG bureaucrats? How ironic would it be to have the very subject of that whistleblower's knee-jerk crusade siezed indefinitely at a public dock where, like other recoveries, it may easily end up vandalized and picked apart in short order?

I can only hope that the individual who burned up the phones to warn the PNG officials of the salvage was motivated by more than the basic desire to engage in one-upmanship against the preservationists. Electing to play tug-of-war at the 11th hour with a relic this fragile is a fool move by any means, and it always results in more damage than good.

The planes new owner spent decades worth of patience, energy, and capital to acquire legal ownership of this relic through proper channels so that it could be effectively preserved. One idiot with a personal agenda may well have set a chain of events in motion that will see this precious time capsule all but destroyed in the ensuing legal melee. I hope the PNG government's sudden awakening toward the "preservation of national heritage" turns out to be just that, and not just an opportunity to flex their political muscle to no appreciable end. To me, it smacks more of the gardner who enjoys hunting the rabbit far more than he does tending to the dying crop.

_________________
Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

If it was going to stay there, yes, more parts would definitely disappear. But don't blame the locals. I, for example have seen a few years ago half the instrument panel of "Swamp Ghost", not in the house of a Papuan, but in the collection of a well know westerner aircraft owner and collector.

Another example : look at the Ebay link below

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/A6M-Zero-tail-Ho ... dZViewItem

So yes, leaving any wreck in situ is definitely not a good idea, but we are surely as responsible as the local for their gradual deterioration.

Laurent

It's a good lesson in salvage. No permission , No Paper Work and No Press!!! You have just got to grab it and split! Because when they figure it out your looooooooooooooooong gone! I would grab the B-17 off the moutain and Split! _P.S. I would not even tell the help what were doing untill we were at the site! Now it's in a goverment yard and alot of money is involved and regardless of what the law says They will keep it they want to. Further when people starting writng and telling them how corrupt and stupid they are they it will really strenthing their resolve to show the rich Amerian Imperialist who's in charge.

Broken-Wrench wrote:




I dont think you can really expect to roll up into another country and do a "Midnight Motors" on a 75 foot long, 16 tonne wreck in the middle of no-where with no roads, no power and no Starlifter?

regards

Mark Pilkington

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

YEA, I DO It's is kind of like the Philidelpha Project! A plane disapears out of a swamp and reappears years latter in another country. It is easier to beg for forgiveness than ask permission! I belive this has happened to several Japanese wrecks

I'm not sure where the story broke first but it appears it would have been better to have broken when the ship was in international waters. A lesson I think.

I don't think Grabbing and running is a great idea, tempting but not a long term solution.

Tim

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www.tailhookstudio.com

Tim,

It would seem the arrival of Swamp Ghost and its dismantling in Lae would have generated significant local and media interest, as well as the local villagers either noticing the work on the aircraft in the swamp or the workforce travelling in and out, all of this would have been sufficient to bring it to the notice of the general public and in particular Government departments.

The project team was apparantly working with valid approval, there would not seem to be any need to hide, let alone any ability to do so.

From the newspaper articles it seems that direct appeals to the acting Prime Minister by the local villagers is the primary cause for the investigation into the export permit apparantly issued by the National Museum? thats their right to do so.

The story therefore broke as the project progressed?

I dont think it would have been possible for Swamp Ghost to slip out un-noticed unless it was cut up into little pieces, and that would have defeated the purpose of its recovery??

Encouraging restorers to sneak around in the dark without paperwork and permission and doing a "smash and grab" doesnt give you much moral high ground to argue from?

Australia had a ME-109 attempted to be exported as a silver painted "Mustang", I am sure the people concerned knew it wasnt a P51!, and shouldnt been upset to find so did Australian Customs! that aircraft was forfeited along with a CAC Mustang accompanying it.

Lets encourage abiding with the local laws of countries and not let this thread allow itself to be used to give warbird recoverers a bad name, particularly while this PNG investigation is on.

Lets keep criticism of the PNG and their laws and processes out of this debate until the "jury comes in", at this stage they have only stalled the export while they undertake an investigation, thats their right to do so.

Hopefully any investigation will be reported publically and not leave the status of the export, and the future of the aircraft uncertain?

It appears the project team has done everything by the book, and the issue then is an internal PNG Government problem to resolve the powers and processes of the National Museum? again thats their right to do so.

fingers crossed for a fair and logical outcome for Swamp Ghost, and hopefully an ongoing fair process to protect and recover other relics.


regards

Mark Pilkington

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

Why doesn't the PNG Governement work out some kind of auction deal where they make available for recovery a number of airframes every year ? That way there are no secret (dark) corners and everyone gets a chance to go after a wreck. The money can be spent on tourism and preservation. A far better deal than doing nothing and leaving the whole thing rot and corrode.
Gr.
Max

They should have canned the engines take all the expensive hardware and had in nets, they could have disassembled it at the lap seams it had it staged for airlift with a S-58T onto a barge and all would have been gone in about 8 hrs and on it's way.

Because they are considering these aircraft as relics of their World War 2 heritage.

The dilemma is that these aircraft are a important part of their past but they don't either have the motivation or the ability to properly take care of the aircraft. Ither by recoverying or restoring the aircraft or structures (enclosed buildings) could be built around the sites to display the aircraft in a closed enviroment as the were found.....away from the elements.

My brother is dealing with a situation similar to this. He noticed a particular 1967 Pontiac Lemans in front of a house, on his route to work. He stopped by to take a closer look. The car is in very poor condition, but is saveble. He rang on the door to talk to the owner and asked if he would consider selling it. The owner stated that the car had once belonged to his now deceased son, who passed 20 years ago and that he would not sell it ever. Now I can understand and respect the feelings associated to this car and in the case of Swamp Ghost. But there comes a point when you have to step back and take look at the situation and ask some hard questions. Is letting these machines deteriorate into nothing, because you don't have the abilities to take care of them, fair to the memories of the people or heritage of your country? Is it better that these aircraft be saved and restored to last for the coming years even though the might leave the country? Or do we continue on our path of neglect and ensure that nothing remains by the time of the next mellinium? In the end the only people at a loss are the future generations.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Is there still a link to the recovery pictures?

well either Penndell Towing yanked (or they were asked to) 'em or the Webshots page is still down....no trace of the recovery photos on their Webshots pages

They "were" awsome, to say the least.

_________________
Rob