Collings Foundation B-17G 909 Has Crashed :-( 10/2/2019

[BigGrey]

I wore my Nine-O-Nine crew T-shirt to work today. A small tribute to the dead, the injured, and the airplane. It wasn't much, but it was at leaast something.

Dean, I also wore my vintage Nine-O-Nine t-shirt to lunch at our EAA chapter weekly lunch. I stood up and made a statement about the accident and what a good friend Mac was and that we had plenty of good times together and we saluted with a toast to the loss of some mighty fine people.

[marine air]

I think the NTSB will be looking at several things.
1) Did the pilots declare an emergency? What caused an engine to fail? Was the aircraft serviced with Jet A instead of 100LL? Was the 100LL contaminated before it entered the aircraft? How many hours were on the engine that failed? Are the maintenance logbooks in order? What recent maintenance issues were written up, noted or corrected? For example, did it have a couple cylinders replaced recently? What made the #4 engine fail?
The airplane was giving a tour at low altitude,I believe that’s why it “ wasn’t climbing”. There’s no evidence at this point that the other three engines weren’t in good repair and the aircraft capable of flying on three engines.
The winds were four knots and favoring Runway 6. Runway 06 had 9,500’ plus overruns and is 200’ wide. It has an ILS for Glidepath information that can assist a visual approach, especially in an emergency. It was VFR and the runway is 173’ above sea level. ATC cancelled a B737 landing clearance and issued go around instructions. The B-17 was given landing priority. The crew successfubrought the plane back to the departure airport which was under excellent VFR conditions.
Next is to look at the crew training, experience, time in type and how current they were in the aircraft. Age of the pilots will be looked at. Were the pilots incapacitated in some way? Were they physically strong enough to handle the air raft in this flight condition, etc?
The NTSB and FAA will be looking at the crew pretty closely in this accident. Things were going okay until the very end of the flight. Photos show the prop was feathered and no doubt they carried out the emergency procedure checklist.
I’m going to send up a prayer to those injured and the families of those deceased. I predict the FAA may focus on the crew.

[dougdrivr]

You can’t even tell which engine it is from the photo, assuming you mean the one embedded in the wall of the building. Or if it was intentionally feathered. They were only in the air for a few minutes. Hardly enough time to run an entire engine shutdown checklist, followed by a landing checklist. I haven’t heard anyone confirm that the gear was ever retracted?

[JFS61]

I think the NTSB will be looking at several things.
1) Did the pilots declare an emergency? What caused an engine to fail? Was the aircraft serviced with Jet A instead of 100LL? Was the 100LL contaminated before it entered the aircraft? How many hours were on the engine that failed? Are the maintenance logbooks in order? What recent maintenance issues were written up, noted or corrected? For example, did it have a couple cylinders replaced recently? What made the #4 engine fail?
The airplane was giving a tour at low altitude,I believe that’s why it “ wasn’t climbing”. There’s no evidence at this point that the other three engines weren’t in good repair and the aircraft capable of flying on three engines.
The winds were four knots and favoring Runway 6. Runway 06 had 9,500’ plus overruns and is 200’ wide. It has an ILS for Glidepath information that can assist a visual approach, especially in an emergency. It was VFR and the runway is 173’ above sea level. ATC cancelled a B737 landing clearance and issued go around instructions. The B-17 was given landing priority. The crew successfubrought the plane back to the departure airport which was under excellent VFR conditions.
Next is to look at the crew training, experience, time in type and how current they were in the aircraft. Age of the pilots will be looked at. Were the pilots incapacitated in some way? Were they physically strong enough to handle the air raft in this flight condition, etc?
The NTSB and FAA will be looking at the crew pretty closely in this accident. Things were going okay until the very end of the flight. Photos show the prop was feathered and no doubt they carried out the emergency procedure checklist.
I’m going to send up a prayer to those injured and the families of those deceased. I predict the FAA may focus on the crew.

I'm surprised that the media in all its wisdom hasn't picked up more on the age angle. Guess there are too many others things in the current press cycle that are keeping them distracted.

Hopefully the answers to most of these questions can be provided by the crew chief when he more fully recovers.

[whistlingdeath77]

Hi guys, I just wanted to say a few words about the wof tour, the 909 etc. my name is frank and I am a volunteer for the tour and as of the flight into Bradley,( from Nashua, nh,) I had 18 city to city flights on the bombers. Thursday I was scheduled to fly out to white plains, ny. One thing I will not comment on is what happens or think what happened. Other than me lifting boxes or cones into the bomb bay of the 909 that’s about all I’m qualified for. I’ve broke down and cried several times about this and the loss of Mac. The 909 and him were two things you could always count on seeing every year. I got to start to know Mitch a little bit from Texas a he’s a very hard worker. Because of the dedication of the Collings foundation and Mac, children all over the United States were able to see living breathing history of an era that so many people know nothing about. Macs mission was to bring that fortress in time and time again so that veterans could see their plane one last time. I just wanted to say to Mac that your mission is complete sir, you did your duty. Hats off to a job well done.

If we as pilots, students, volunteers etc can get thru this together then god willing I will go back up with the Collings foundation once again. I’m not afraid of flying. I’m more afraid of future generations not knowing what a Flying Fortress is or a liberator. I’ll do my part again without hesitation. The greatest generation had to keep going back up and I’ll do the same.

For all the guys who read this that know me I want to let you know I love you all and I love all the warbird events we have done together. Life is so short we never know when we can actually say that to each other! God bless the Collings foundation

[Forgotten Field]

"I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

Frank,
First, sorry for your loss. Second, change that G****mn tag line. I have lots of experience with warbirds, and you have more B-17 "time" than I ever was able to get, so there's something and I am envious because the B-17 is my favorite heavy. What it should read, and you can pay me royalties if it ever catches on, is, "I am somebody in Aviation who helped out on a B-17, and blessed with a family who loves me," or something like that.

-And emphasis here, I really want you to change your tag line, please.

People like you are the people who help keep my ship and others in the air, not with stacks of money or donations, but with physical work. I have a whole bunch of them just like you who are not pilots or mechanics but are friends who have helped me with my L-5E, "Gail." I appreciate everything people like you do for our efforts, and you should be proud of what you have done to help these living, flying, temples of American Greatness to continue flight.

My sincerest condolences to all who lost something on 909, and I know it was many, many people,

John K. Seidts
Founder, Forgotten Field Aviation Technical Center

[6trn4brn]

Thank you for speaking up whistlingdeath. You put it much better than I can. I am also a nobody when it comes to these beautiful airplanes insofar as flying or maintaining them. I love seeing them in the air where they belong and it just breaks my heart when we lose one. Even worse is the wonderful people who are lost when one goes down. It seems that all who knew the pilot speak so highly of him. I just read that the gentleman who owned and flew the P-51 Petie 2nd passed away yesterday. Not in his plane, but a tragic loss none the less. I guess I felt closest to Vlado Lenoch as Moonbeam McSwine was the first P-51 I had the privilege of seeing fly. Vlado was a perfect gentleman every time I got to talk to him, so full of energy and joy and loved sharing his knowledge with others. Bob Odeegaard was another perfect gentleman who I had the fortune of speaking with many times. I just go back to what I said about being a nobody, but there are so many people in our little world of historical aviation that make me feel like I am somebody. For that I am eternally grateful and am so sorry for the loss of these wonderful people and aircraft.

[whistlingdeath77]

"I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

Frank,
First, sorry for your loss. Second, change that G****mn tag line. I have lots of experience with warbirds, and you have more B-17 "time" than I ever was able to get, so there's something and I am envious because the B-17 is my favorite heavy. What it should read, and you can pay me royalties if it ever catches on, is, "I am somebody in Aviation who helped out on a B-17, and blessed with a family who loves me," or something like that.

-And emphasis here, I really want you to change your tag line, please.

People like you are the people who help keep my ship and others in the air, not with stacks of money or donations, but with physical work. I have a whole bunch of them just like you who are not pilots or mechanics but are friends who have helped me with my L-5E, "Gail." I appreciate everything people like you do for our efforts, and you should be proud of what you have done to help these living, flying, temples of American Greatness to continue flight.

My sincerest condolences to all who lost something on 909, and I know it was many, many people,

John K. Seidts
Founder, Forgotten Field Aviation Technical Center

Thank you so much for the kind words. But there is so many more people on the tour that are truly the backbone and life line of those birds. Demi, Ryan, pinky, angel just to name a few. Those are the people who I feel for. They are the most amazing people I have ever met. I hope within time the group only gets stronger and more successful so more generations of children can dream and see the beauty of warbird aviation.

I did read that the “ battle for the airfield “ will take place. I for one will be going in support of the Collings foundation.

[p51]

I'm (pleasantly) surprised to hear that the battle for the airfield will take place after all. I would have assumed they'd cancel it, but Collings is no longer just the B-17/B-24 group they used to be.
The show must go on. I'm sure they'll handle the loss of 909 and the lives aboard in a proper way at that event.
Like many (if not most/all) of you reading this, I have couple of 909 t-shirts. I think it's great some of you are wearing your in public, but I can't bring myself to. I may never wear them again. Heck, I was hoping they'd come through my neck of the woods when I can get to them, to buy a new one, but that'll never happen now. That said, they will have to do something with the 909 swag they currently have, and it wouldn't be sane to just throw it all in a dumpster, would it?

I'm surprised that the media in all its wisdom hasn't picked up more on the age angle. Guess there are too many others things in the current press cycle that are keeping them distracted.

That's been a long ongoing issue, older guys flying these planes and I've heard many of them over the years declare that "these kids coming up today" don't have what it takes to fly them. I always countered that by asking what age they thought the men and women in WW2 were when they flew them in combat?

Hopefully the answers to most of these questions can be provided by the crew chief when he more fully recovers.

If he was in the back with the pax like I've seen Collings do in the past, he might not have any more insight than anyone else who survived.

[Dan K]

...I just read that the gentleman who owned and flew the P-51 Petie 2nd passed away yesterday...

Would you be kind enough to provide the source of this information? Many TIA.

[JohnH]

I knew Mac at Chino when had his Stearman there when he was part of the SilverWings Stearman flight team- and even ran into him at one of my gigs back in the day. Did some air to air work too I think also back then. Always thought he was just the coolest guy . Someone on the FB group posted one time at a tour stop he wanted to find the local SPCA just to go hang out with dogs. As an animal lover that shows a lot about Mac- he was the coolest! Back in May when Collings came to So Cal I thought I had better go to the Lyons museum stop because I knew this was the last year for a long time of 909. I brought my aunt and uncle and we had a great day. I knew it was the last chance, I just couldn’t imagine it really was. Got some great manual pics of it flying with my digital camera also. Cried at my desk yesterday and on the way home wed night. Just as crushed as everyone here.

Last edited by JohnH on Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[JohnH]

I’m baffled that there’s Five hundred billion people walking around with smart phones plus aviation enthusiasts every time a Warbird flies and there’s no film or photos of the crash emerging
yet. Very weird in 2019.

[menards]

*Deleted

[WIXerGreg]

I’m baffled that there’s Five hundred billion people walking around with smart phones plus aviation enthusiasts every time a Warbird flies and there’s no film or photos of the crash emerging
yet. Very weird in 2019.

There is video from cameras at the airport. They at least have video of what happened on the ground from what I recall from one of the press conferences.

Last edited by WIXerGreg on Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[WIXerGreg]

Deleted double post.