Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:04 pm
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:54 am
marine air wrote:It can’t be rebuilt. Honestly, they could take the insurance money and buy one out of a museum . One thought would be to take the insurance money and buy that B-24/LB30 project and build up a second B-24.
Nine o Nine received double jeopardy. One it smashed into the building and tanks at a high rate of speed , deforming the shape of the aircraft. 2) a truly massive fire. The Liberty Bell project has a lot more to go on and they have a second B-17 project recovered from the bush.
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:09 am
menards wrote:marine air wrote:It can’t be rebuilt. Honestly, they could take the insurance money and buy one out of a museum . One thought would be to take the insurance money and buy that B-24/LB30 project and build up a second B-24.
Nine o Nine received double jeopardy. One it smashed into the building and tanks at a high rate of speed , deforming the shape of the aircraft. 2) a truly massive fire. The Liberty Bell project has a lot more to go on and they have a second B-17 project recovered from the bush.
It would be a new-built not a rebuilt. All the tooling has been recreated to new-build b-17 air frames, so I dont see why a passionate group of people with money and time wont start the monumental task of (new)building the plane.
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:57 am
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:24 am
Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:20 pm
EstorilM wrote:I think you're on the right track, perhaps minus the power addition any of the turbosuperchargers would contribute during sea level operations.
Generally speaking, aviation engines use forced induction to "see" sea level pressures at nearly all altitudes. Since these engines are already supercharged (as part of the core design, in the case/block) there really isn't much "boost" that can be applied to these things at sea level, at least not in these engines built for reliability and longevity over all-out air-racer style performance.
There are certain circuits in the carbs that have to be activated (kinda like opening the secondaries on a car carburetor) which can only happen at certain manifold pressures (and is critical for correct engine operation / air fuel ratios, doesn't really mean they need that much power).
I can pretty much tell you for a fact that these B-17s with disabled turbosuperchargers are still incredibly over-powered beasts in their current roles. Dropping the armor, bombs, oxygen systems, primitive avionics and radio/nav equipment, etc probably leaves these things about 10,000lbs under their original gross / MTOW but that's just a WILD guess on my part. I know our TBM is about 6,000lbs under its original gross wartime weight and that's for a single-engined carrier plane!![]()
In any event, at sea level BDL sits at an altitude of 173' AMSL.. those engines will essentially be generating their rated horsepower regardless of modifications to the turbos (there may have been some slight boost settings used for takeoff, but at sea level that may require higher-octane fuels and certainly cuts the life of the engines somewhat). Again though - considering the weight of the plane, it's not even worth mentioning.
Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:34 pm
Dear supporters,
Please join the Collings Foundation in our thoughts and prayers with those who were on the tragic flight of the B-17 Flying Fortress “Nine-O-Nine” on Wednesday, October 2nd. We will be forever grateful to the heroic efforts of the first responders at Bradley International Airport and the assistance of all local agencies in the days after the crash.
The Collings Foundation team has been and remains fully cooperative with officials to determine the cause of the crash and we will comment further when facts and details become available. We have suspended the Wings of Freedom Tour for the remainder of the 2019 season and the aircraft have returned to our winter maintenance base in Florida.
The mission of the Collings Foundation remains steadfast in the goal of making history come alive as we have for over 30 years. Since 1989, the Wings of Freedom Tour has touched the lives of millions, as we have made visits to over 3600 communities in that time. Tens of thousands have flown aboard our Living History Flight Experiences (LHFE) on the B-17, B-24, B-25, and A-1E and flight training on the TP-51C, TF-51D, and TP-40N. In the past week we have received many stories on how powerful and life-changing the tour has been for families and as we move forward, and we expect there are thousands more who have been touched by the Wings of Freedom Tour.
In the coming months, federal agencies will be reviewing the LHFE program for not only our organization, but many other organizations nationwide who continue to fly vintage aircraft as a part of their educational mission. As these reviews take place, we feel it is important for the voices of those impacted by the Wings of Freedom Tour over the years to be heard. We need to let federal agencies know that the LHFE program is important to you and other American citizens as an educational tool.
Please take a moment to add your comments to the current docket regarding the renewal of the Collings Foundation LHFE program with the FAA at the Federal Register. You may do so online at the following link:
https://www.regulations.gov/comment?D=F ... 11089-0096
As you write your comment, please review the tips for submitting effective comments from Regulations.gov at https://www.regulations.gov/docs/Tips_F ... mments.pdf
Thank you for your support of our living history mission.
Best regards,
Rob Collings
Executive Director
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:34 pm
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:48 pm
p51 wrote:Yeah, no way the 909 is going to be rebuilt, as there's almost nothing useable left.
But I am curious what'll be done with the surviving wing and tail, I assume they'll be sent to someplace where Collings will keep them stored? Any chance they might be put on display in their museum (depicting a combat shot down B-17)? Yeah, probably in bad taste if they did due to the loss of life, but the remains should be somewhere they can be seen...
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:48 pm
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:13 pm
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:54 pm
Dear supporters,
Please join the Collings Foundation in our thoughts and prayers with those who were on the tragic flight of the B-17 Flying Fortress “Nine-O-Nine” on Wednesday, October 2nd. We will be forever grateful to the heroic efforts of the first responders at Bradley International Airport and the assistance of all local agencies in the days after the crash.
The Collings Foundation team has been and remains fully cooperative with officials to determine the cause of the crash and we will comment further when facts and details become available. We have suspended the Wings of Freedom Tour for the remainder of the 2019 season and the aircraft have returned to our winter maintenance base in Florida.
The mission of the Collings Foundation remains steadfast in the goal of making history come alive as we have for over 30 years. Since 1989, the Wings of Freedom Tour has touched the lives of millions, as we have made visits to over 3600 communities in that time. Tens of thousands have flown aboard our Living History Flight Experiences (LHFE) on the B-17, B-24, B-25, and A-1E and flight training on the TP-51C, TF-51D, and TP-40N. In the past week we have received many stories on how powerful and life-changing the tour has been for families and as we move forward, and we expect there are thousands more who have been touched by the Wings of Freedom Tour.
In the coming months, federal agencies will be reviewing the LHFE program for not only our organization, but many other organizations nationwide who continue to fly vintage aircraft as a part of their educational mission. As these reviews take place, we feel it is important for the voices of those impacted by the Wings of Freedom Tour over the years to be heard. We need to let federal agencies know that the LHFE program is important to you and other American citizens as an educational tool.
Please take a moment to add your comments to the current docket regarding the renewal of the Collings Foundation LHFE program with the FAA at the Federal Register. You may do so online at the following link:
https://www.regulations.gov/comment?D=F ... 11089-0096
As you write your comment, please review the tips for submitting effective comments from Regulations.gov at https://www.regulations.gov/docs/Tips_F ... mments.pdf
Thank you for your support of our living history mission.
Best regards,
Rob Collings
Executive Director
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:23 pm
Hamilton H-37500 wrote:The Colllings Foundation sent out an email to supporters this morning:Dear supporters,
Please join the Collings Foundation in our thoughts and prayers with those who were on the tragic flight of the B-17 Flying Fortress “Nine-O-Nine” on Wednesday, October 2nd. We will be forever grateful to the heroic efforts of the first responders at Bradley International Airport and the assistance of all local agencies in the days after the crash.
The Collings Foundation team has been and remains fully cooperative with officials to determine the cause of the crash and we will comment further when facts and details become available. We have suspended the Wings of Freedom Tour for the remainder of the 2019 season and the aircraft have returned to our winter maintenance base in Florida.
The mission of the Collings Foundation remains steadfast in the goal of making history come alive as we have for over 30 years. Since 1989, the Wings of Freedom Tour has touched the lives of millions, as we have made visits to over 3600 communities in that time. Tens of thousands have flown aboard our Living History Flight Experiences (LHFE) on the B-17, B-24, B-25, and A-1E and flight training on the TP-51C, TF-51D, and TP-40N. In the past week we have received many stories on how powerful and life-changing the tour has been for families and as we move forward, and we expect there are thousands more who have been touched by the Wings of Freedom Tour.
In the coming months, federal agencies will be reviewing the LHFE program for not only our organization, but many other organizations nationwide who continue to fly vintage aircraft as a part of their educational mission. As these reviews take place, we feel it is important for the voices of those impacted by the Wings of Freedom Tour over the years to be heard. We need to let federal agencies know that the LHFE program is important to you and other American citizens as an educational tool.
Please take a moment to add your comments to the current docket regarding the renewal of the Collings Foundation LHFE program with the FAA at the Federal Register. You may do so online at the following link:
https://www.regulations.gov/comment?D=F ... 11089-0096
As you write your comment, please review the tips for submitting effective comments from Regulations.gov at https://www.regulations.gov/docs/Tips_F ... mments.pdf
Thank you for your support of our living history mission.
Best regards,
Rob Collings
Executive Director
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:34 pm
p51 wrote:But I am curious what'll be done with the surviving wing and tail, I assume they'll be sent to someplace where Collings will keep them stored? Any chance they might be put on display in their museum (depicting a combat shot down B-17)? Yeah, probably in bad taste if they did due to the loss of life, but the remains should be somewhere they can be seen...
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:58 am
eze240 wrote:Coming from a fueling background, if the aircraft was not fitted with reduced size fuel caps, it could well fit the Hoover nozzle for Jet A in it.... I seriously doubt that scenario, due to the fact that someone would have noted the Jet placards on the truck, etc.....
There is another possibility.....it's remotely possible that the truck itself could have been filled improperly with Jet.... The trucks come in a variety of sizes and shapes, if they use a "bottom" type fill system for both AV gas and Jet, it is possible that a poorly trained/inexperienced operator could mix it up, I don't recall off hand if there was a difference in size of such fill nozzles for both fuel types...however, the nozzles are the same size for Jet for filling the truck and connecting to the aircraft....
There's also the possibility that it both types of fuel are "top" loaded, using an overhead hose system, etc... An inexperienced operator could mix up the loading of the truck from this direction as well...