P-40 for sale on barnstormers

[Lon Moer]

Cool to see that George Perez is still in the business.

[marine air]

Haven’t heard anyone other than you mention that, Rob. Why do you think that?

[Sopwith]

So it seems there might be some truth to the rumor that by 2020 most of the heavy iron in Europe will either have been placed up for sale or will be for sale.

https://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail. ... atid=23451

That is an interesting comment, hadn’t heard that rumour, any idea why European owners would be putting their kit up for sale?

[dbrown]

$1.9M Seems like a low price - not that I have that much to play with.

[Decamara]

Yep

Seems high

Seems the market keeps gettin pushed up more and more

Especially the Mustangs

[menards]

Any talks of the Pink Lady getting snatched up and returned to the States?

[Mike]

Any talks of the Pink Lady getting snatched up and returned to the States?

It's not for sale

There are plenty of twin-engined warbirds flying in Europe. Two B-25s, numerous DC-3s, Beech 18s, the Duxford Catalina,

The issue with Flying Legends had to more do with recognition of overseas Display Authorisations by the UK CAA in the wake of the Shoreham crash

There are numerous warbirds able to display across Europe. The Spitfire and Hurricane populations are ever-increasing, more Buchons are being restored.

In short, rumours of the death of warbird flying in Europe are greatly exaggerated.

[Sopwith]

Ok thanks for your reply Col Rohr, I missed that over on FlyPast.

[marine air]

There are variances in the warbird market as in all markets. The global economy, the value of the U.S. dollar versus other currencies, taxation rates which of course fluctuate with which party in in power. Many wealthy warbird owners were formerly middle class or poor. The middle class in America has been declining for twent five years , while the upper class has been increasing in size during this time.
Many factors affect the market. I think the massive importation of Russian, Chines and Czech warbird toys has severely suppressed the market on the entry level warbirds. We love our big name collectors but they are small in number and some have finished the acquisition phase. Sometimes you have to “ make a market” for a type. The Buchons were very cheap for decades because no one could fly them without tearing them up. Remember when they said the life expectancy of a DB 601/605 was sixteen minutes?
This has been proven to be false. The guys owning, flying, maintaining the ME-109/ Buchons are to be commended . They are flying them and creating a lot of excitement. Same goes for the Mosquitos.

[Iclo]

So it seems there might be some truth to the rumor that by 2020 most of the heavy iron in Europe will either have been placed up for sale or will be for sale.

https://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail. ... atid=23451

I think this assertion is a bit strange.

Regarding the sales of some planes in France : yes, one very well known warbird operator is selling a part of his fleet after approximatively 20 years operating a wide fleet of planes including 2 twinengined, 2 WWII fighter, etc, etc and sponsoring lots of other planes.

But in the same time for example, you have :
- a "new" owner in Belgium who in what, two years ?, acquired / put in the air again a Spitfire, a Hurricane and a Fury.
- a massive increase of the number of Buchons in the UK.
- A new owner in the UK bring back a P47 on the European circuit, acquired a Mustang, a Spitfire, a Fury.

So I'm not sure the number of warbirds is decreasing in Europe, but more than with more warbirds in the Europe, there are just more sales

The warbird world is evolving this ways since its birth : aging owner selling their planes, new warbird owner moving to more impressive planes when gaining experience or having money to invest.

In the 20 last years in the UK, a lots of "big names" disappeared like the Hanna father and son, Flacke, etc : lots of peoples where thinking the warbid movement will starve and decline but new owner / operators taken over, never replacing them (Ray Hanna will be never replaced ) but continuing thing in a different way.

Last edited by Iclo on Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Zac Yates]

So it seems there might be some truth to the rumor that by 2020 most of the heavy iron in Europe will either have been placed up for sale or will be for sale.

I think this assertion is a bit strange.

Regarding the sales of some planes in France : yes, one very well known warbird operator is selling a part of his fleet after approximatively 20 years operating a wide fleet of planes including 2 twinengined, 2 WWII fighter, etc, etc and sponsoring lots of other planes.

But in the same time for example, you have :
- a "new" owner in Belgium who in what, two years ?, acquired / put in the air again a Spitfire, a Hurricane and a Fury.
- a massive increase of the number of Buchons in the UK.
- A new owner in the UK bring back a P47 on the European circuit, acquired a Mustang, a Spitfire, a Fury.

Not to mention Hangar10 in Germany, which operates three Buchons/109s (two permanently with DBs, the other able to change between Merlin and DB) and a Flug Werk 190 as well as a P-51D and Spitfire XVIII (as well as several other types).

News of the demise of the European warbird fighter scene is new to this enthusiast!

[Iclo]

I'm not aware of a second Skyraider for sales in France, or neither a TBM ? (Edit I found for the Skyraider to be the one based in Avignon)

For the "for sales" ads, lots of airplanes are owned by peoples able to afford it as very good businessmen and who will be permanently interested to sold one of their aircrafts if an interresting offer come (Stephen Grey explained, with his well known sarcastic sense of humor, that all his collection is always for sales if someone really want a specific plane and is able / want to put the price)

Two or three years ago, the whole collection from Hangar10 was put for sales for a few months and then withdrawn: it's sometime just a way to determine the price of a plane by receiving offers.

So, I think that for every plane leaving the european skies at least one other is coming back or is in restoration, with some a short perioc of more leavers than incomes.

For an other example : few years ago, there was complain because the two flying Corsair in France where sold (One moving to Germany, the other one to the USA), few years later, an other one is flying again (Ferté-Alais) and an massive restoration project is under way for a second (Lons-Le-Saunier in the east of France)