Warbird Information Exchange

Is there still a link to the recovery pictures?

well either Penndell Towing yanked (or they were asked to) 'em or the Webshots page is still down....no trace of the recovery photos on their Webshots pages

They "were" awsome, to say the least.

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Rob

I was too slow on getting to the site. I'd love to see them.

Tim

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www.tailhookstudio.com

SHAY said

"Because they are considering these aircraft as relics of their World War 2 heritage."


These people couldn't care less about their World War Two heritage. unless it means money.

As with all backwoods countries, it's who you pay off that counts. And Dave has been paying off PNG people for years trying to get the B-17 out. Trouble is, every time he thought he had everything tied up and ready to start some other two-bit S.O.B. would come along and want his share.

I'm sure that he simply had had enough and was tired of spending money for nothing. He had his paperwork so he sent his crew down to get his property.

I didn't say I was buying what they're sell'n. Just repeating what they are saying.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Well, how about SGM Jacob Vouza? Awarded the Silver Star and promoted to USMC Sergeant Major for crawling through Japanese lines after being bayonetted and left for dead to report on troop movements.

Before you open your mouth again about people not caring about their heritage, at least crack a book and learn a bit about some of the PNG and other islanders who contributed to a war they had little or no stake in. Your statement was totally ignorant of this fact and is EXACTLY the reason these people get up in arms when we come to "preserve" their history by taking it away from them.

Once a Marine, always a Marine.

Never heard of Sergeant Major Jacob Vouza, but I'd dare say that what he did, which is as gallant as it comes, he did for his fellow Marines and not for the people of PNG.

So, he most certainly is a person that can be deemed of World War Two heritage, however, he would be UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS heritage and not PNG heritage.

It doesn't matter where an individual comes from, once he/she becomes a U.S. Marine, or any other branch of the military, he/she becomes part of United States heritage.

His home country can be just as proud of he/she as we are, but if you want to shoot off your mouth about something, find out the facts first.

When you say things like . . .

"Your statement was totally ignorant of this fact and is EXACTLY the reason these people get up in arms when we come to "preserve" their history by taking it away from them."

Who, exactly, are THESE people you're referring to? Are you referring to the general population, who really couldn't care less, or just to the corrupt bureaucrates and politicians that rule over these backwoods countries?

Because, no matter what is said or done, it's all about the money.

He was a scout for the Marines on Guadalcanal. He was captured by the Japanese in Aug 1942 and tortured but refused to give out any information. He was repeatidly bayonetted and sliced open his throat from ear to ear then left for dead. But, he survived and lived on Guadalcanal into his 70s dying in 1984. He is indeed a Marine Corp legend by not a PNG one.

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Don't touch my junk!!

I do believe that I remember something about him.

I think that he did an interview on the 50th anniversary and stated that he had been bayoneted 17 times before the Japanese left him for dead.

1. I am not a member nor have I ever been a member of the USMC. Fine organization, great training with them, but never a member.

2. I think you are belittling the national feelings people have about their heritage. I brought up Jacob Vouza as an immediately available example of locals throwing their hat in the ring in an uncertain situation. But there were hundreds, thousands of people in PNG and surrounding islands who were rounded up, enslaved for work parties, tortured, or killed. Do you think that only pertains to US or UK history? What happened on those islands was intensely personal and produced local heroes, legends, and villains. So if you think that the people have no stake in those artifacts, and only think of the money, I think you are wrong. I am not naive- this is a great chance for local politicians and land owners to make more hay off the "Swamp Ghost." But don't ascribe every bit of disagreement to money. That's like saying all WWII US veterans fought for a paycheck. Yeah, they did, but there was a little more to it than that.

3. Deals and title aside, what makes you think that we deserve to have that aircraft more than the original inhabitants of the island? That is exactly the question being played out in the media. It is not just one of money. By the writing of some of the local articles, the authors were at least sensitive to prior recoveries. Personally, I'd like to see another B17 flying- all the better if it is a combat vet of the South Pacific. But I don't want to see it at the expense of all other recoveries- there are much more rare aircraft laying around PNG than B-17's. If you want to talk about money, why didn't they recover a Betty, or another rarer aircraft from the region? I think the answer to that is $- somehow, I can't see the FAA granting a ride exemption to a G4M, but a high likelihood of giving one to another B17.

4. I still stand behind my statement- your opinions may be valid, but they are backed only by the thinnest personal knowledge of the region, and they certainly don't give much credit to the people of the region. Like I said, hit the books. When you do, maybe you'll understand why I named my RAAF Veteran 1942 Indian Motorcycle "Kokoda Trail Express."

Once again, Swamp Ghost has made one of the PNG newspapers...

This from todays NATIONAL:
http://www.thenational.com.pg/052606/nation7.htm



It does not seem to make any appearance in today's POST COURIER.

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Daniel Leahy

PACIFIC WRECK DATABASE
http://www.pacificwrecks.com

PACIFIC GHOSTS
http://www.pacificghosts.com

Hello everyone

I have stayed out of the debate for a couple of days but feel compelled to comment in light of recent events.

I would implore all of you to let things take their course and wait for an outcome.

I guess in the USA you may not be aware that recently we in Australia had to send troops into The Solomon Islands to help quell the disintegrating violence there - a policing role - next door to PNG - they are still there.

Last Night 1,300 Australian troops were deployed to Timor as it descended into violence and many are dead as a result of a partial coup. Again a neighbour of PNG.

There is open rebellion in Irian jaya - the Indonesian controlled other half of PNG with all sorts of military action taking place to say nothing of terrorism killing 200+ people in Bali (mostly Australians)

I am just trying to put in context the environment in the South Pacific - the fabric of Government and Governance as you would be familiar with it has broken down and is largely in chaos and it is not possible to operate under the same rules or conventions practised in the Northern hemisphere.


Moreover it would be very much the case that the islanders really resent external interference in their affairs which is perceived as negative and destructive - particularly the mining industry which is pillaging the countryside and poising the rivers - How would you or I perceive if a PNG mining company moved into Yellowstone park or Australians great Barrier reef and set up mining and the people saw no benefit for what they lost.

So when a group of Yanks ride into town the scene is set for a stoush and so it is............

My father was a Commando in the South pacific during WW11 and particularly PNG and Timor - Let me assure you he and many Yanks and Aussies owe their lives to the support and care of the people of PNG for which thousands were rewarded with a Japanese Bayonet - they are a proud and loyal group of people - historically they have been invaded and patronised and exploited by the Europeans. It is not their fault that we expect them to adapt to modern western paradigms and governance structures when they spent thousands of years in a non materialistic tribal culture which fails to comprehend our western values and beliefs.

You cannot brush aside these people and assume anybody has the right to go in and help themselves - in other more 'civilised cultures “shots would have been fired.

Gentle persuasion and on the ground leg work works here not bully boy tactics. People have to be prepared to stay the course and work firstly with the locals and then the government and then act quickly and fairly once agreement is reached - tribal culture dictates that not every party is going to be happy.

Finally in some of these places it will be 20, 50 or even 100 years before sufficient stability is in place within Government to achieve some of the outcomes you are after - This is a violent tumultuous place and everyone has to learn to live with that and work with it - not make it worse

There is nothing wrong with what has taken place with Swamp Ghost it was always going to be a hard ask and we just all need to but out and see what can be negotiated - big moves are being made behind the scenes I assure you and will not be assisted by well intentioned but less than optimally informed input from all of us here

I am NOT having a go at ANYONE on here just trying to give some context

My two bobs worth only

Regards

John p

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Air Vice Marshall
Sunshine State Air Farce

It sounds like the Jacquinot bay incident,getting it out of the country makes no difrence.It's just the beginning.

John (aka Setter)... Incredibly well put. You are indeed a gentleman!

Digger. Not wanting to stir anything up (so PM me if you think it will), but my curiosity has got the better of me. What was the Jaquinot Bay incident, and when did it happen?

Cheers,
Richard

Yes, the pics were yanked. *MAYBE* they will be back if & when the plane makes it out.

In the meantime lets all stay settled down, and don't let's play "fan the flames".

I deeply regret posting the link to the pics. That's a mistake I won't soon make again.

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Regards,

Jase
www.b26marauder.com
"I'm having a BLAST!!" 2007 CAF Wing Staff Conference

RIP Gary Austin..always in our hearts