Warbird Information Exchange

A number of sources say that the Doolittle Raid B-25s took off from the Hornet using "full flaps." Certainly short-field takeoff technique would suggest using flaps, but FULL flaps? Can this be true?

https://media.defense.gov/2007/Apr/18/2 ... 0D-003.JPG


Photo evidence looks like full flaps....

I don't know definitively, but the photographic evidence certainly suggests that it was full flaps. For whatever it's worth, the B-25, and indeed many aircraft, can not only takeoff, but also go-around with full flaps. In fact, I would say that most aircraft probably can. Remember, there is a direct correlation between stall speed and takeoff distance and the amount of flaps used for takeoff. Most aircraft manuals dictate a takeoff flap setting less than full, usually around half or close to it, because that gives the best compromise between lift and drag. When it comes to short field takeoff performance, which one obviously needs on an aircraft carrier, the most important considerations are takeoff ground roll and stall speed. Full flaps gives this.

Ted Lawson's plane almost failed to get airborne because the flaps were up. (I wonder how many times I've read Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo over the years).

_________________
I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw.

In this link they talk about the setup they practiced to get shortest take off run and it was full flap , good article to read anyway , quite interesting

https://www.pearlharboraviationmuseum.o ... ttle-raid/

Thanks for all your help, guys. (I have a young friend who is giving a Doolittle Raid talk at our local library, and I'm trying to give him some help.)

Stephan

Yes, full flaps were the practice and what all but Lawson did on the real takeoff.

Here's a good shot showing the flaps deployed:


https://i2.wp.com/prologue.blogs.archiv ... .jpg?ssl=1

I'm fairly busy, but if he has questions, I'll try to help. www.DoolittleRaid.com

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

I'll ditto Stephan's thanks to the group as well.

Not having seen Col. McElroy's narrative before, I've decided to use it this afternoon while covering the Doolittle Raid with a group of young teenagers. Special thanks to A68-1001 for the timely link!

_________________
It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

this was a good read. I found it particularly interesting that after trekking all the way through China to India, he wound up flying Gooney Birds over the hump. Made me wonder, after making his way back to american forces in India, did the AAC say "Oh you're a pilot? Multi-engine? (pointing towards plane)" Flying over the Hump was also no joke.....

Did the B-25 B model come with tail guns?

No, but wooden broomsticks were fitted to resemble guns in hopes that they would scare off any enemy fighters.
Click here: https://www.history.navy.mil/content/hi ... 53422.html
For a good look at them.

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

That's what I thought, but in the above story by Lt. McElroy he mentions the tail guns being taken out along with the lower turret and the liaison radio.No big deal, just curious.

No, the tail guns weren't added until the H and J models.

I THINK there may have been a provision for a tail gun in the B-25A, and he may have been remembering that as the 17th BG flew the early B-25s before the B models, but the B models were not set up for tail guns. They did have a lower belly turret which was an early Sperry remote-controlled device which was apparently pretty heavy and very difficult to hit a target with and they took them out and faired over the holes.

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

For what it is worth, the lower turrets on early B-25s were Bendix remote turrets, very unsatisfactory in just about every aspect. After the lower turret idea was dropped from the B-25 design, excess Bendix remote turrets were installed as early chin turrets on B-17Fs, also with unsatisfactory results due to the remote gun sight system. The Bendix remote turret was in the process of being redesigned through all this and that resulted in the successful final version of the turret with a direct aiming gunsight that ended up as the chin turret on the B-17G. Source: AAF Historical Studies No. 54: Development of Aircraft Gun Turrets in the AAF 1917-1944 (June 1947). Excellent 279 page source document on the subject.

_________________
Scott Thompson
Aero Vintage Books
http://www.aerovintage.com
WIX Subscriber Since July 2017