B-17G-30-DL Fortress 42-38096

[Scott Rose]

I'm looking for a picture of this aircraft. Anybody got one?

Type: B-17G-30-DL Fortress (Built by Douglas at Long Beach)
Serialnumber: 42-38096
Nickname: Big Time
Unit: 2nd Bomb Group, 20th BS
Destination: Moravska Ostrava, Czechoslovakia
Mission: Bombing Prisover Oil Refinery
MACR: 8110

So far I've only found this one...

[L-4Pilot]

Scott, may not be of any help but you may get lucky with one of these links.
Steve



http://images.google.com/hosted/life/c3 ... 6f257.html

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/5b ... 456bb.html

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/d6 ... 28d35.html

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/5e ... 8b776.html

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/1c ... f9772.html

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/7f ... c382c.html

[seesul]

Scott,

what is the reason of your searching for this machine? I have a picture of her taken at the 99 BG yet and then several pics taken at the crash site. It crashed few miles away from my born town.

Thank you

Roman

[Mark Allen M]

42-38096 when with the 99th BG

[Mark Allen M]

You don't want to see the crash photos.

[seesul]

Yes, that's the picture I meant. Btw, this machine was one the three Forts from 20th BS (2nd BG) equipped by the experimental 20 mm cannon in tail that were shot down the same day. Btw, the whole 20th BS (7 Forts) was completely lost that day.

As for the pics from the crash site - it depends on whom you're talking to. I´m in touch with direct families of three of the crew members (co-pilot, bombardier and tail gunner) who lost their lives during the crash of this machine and they wanted to see those pics. I'm the member of the assn. dedicated to this air battle. We're gathering every single information about the battle, searching the war documents, searching for the parts of the machines with the metal detectors in the woods and on the fields, organizing the annual commemorations, creating and editing our web, contacting the families of the crew members and organizing their visits, etc. That all to keep the memory of the fallen airmen alive forever and to remind the younger generations that the peace is not free. Pics like those from the crash sites help us to make the people understand what the war was.

That's why I asked Scott for the reason of his interest in this particular machine that (and her crew as well) is very familiar to me.

[Mark Allen M]

I’m well aware of your research, hard work and dedication. Very much appreciated as well. I wish more folks were interested in this type of research.

My only point regarding the crash photos being the fact that they are extremely graphic and unless one can sympathize with both sides of the war and the terrible human toll, they may not be understood completely.

I certainly understand and respect your efforts though. May those poor souls continue to Rest In Peace

[Mark Allen M]

On a related, yet general note:

I've always found it hypocritical by the views of some folks who are extremely offended by seeing photos posted (name the website) of "good guy" war dead, yet have no problem seeing plenty of photos of "bad guy" dead. You can be discussing any war, any conflict, anywhere at anytime and it seems if there are photos of dead enemy combatants it's not as graphic or disturbing if the dead are indeed "the enemy" depending on what side you're on.

IMHO photos posted anywhere of dead human beings, regardless of the situation, reason or history, is tragic anyway you view them. And I'm certainly not stating to never post them because there are times when sadly they may be necessary to educate, inform and remember their tragic losses. My point being that any loss of life is a tragic loss regardless of the situation or what side you're on, but whenever someone (or someone's) need to be killed for whatever reason, it's because something went terribly wrong or evil (fill in the blank) long before it came to that point.

Just a couple more cents ....

[bdk]

Look at the WW2 documentary "Thunderbolt." You can see them pulling the remains of a Thunderbolt pilot who perished in a takeoff (or landing) accident from the smoldering aircraft wreckage. That might have been put in to garner sympathy for the war effort but was approved for general public consumption and is quite graphic. Also recall the graphic films of Holocaust victims in mass burials.

[wendovertom]

One of the most heart rending films I have seen is that of the TBM gunner buried in the plane after a crash landing on the USS ESSEX. Mark is right, the ultimate cost of life either side of the fight is a heavy one and should be respected.

Tom P.

[Mark Allen M]

Since I've been asked in a few PM's, I feel it's not right to mention the photos and not direct the folks asking to where they can judge for themselves. As well as anyone else. Terribly tragic that what you will see happened thousands of times in the fields Western Europe and beyond during WWII. Unforgettable.
WARNING!!!!! extremely graphic! ....

Just an FYI. WIX poster "seesul", who created the website below, is doing a great service to the memory of those who gave all.

http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/sestr ... /letadlo5/

[seesul]

I saw these pics for a first time when I was about 10 yo. In our elementary school. It was in 80's and before the 'Velvet revolution', so under the communist goverment yet. Back then all the information about US soldiers and airmen were forbidden, because only the Red Army soldiers were the right liberators of our country...

From some reason some of the history teachers managed to enforce displaying those pics in our school because those flyboys were the part of the history of my born town so all the kids, teachers and school visitors could see all the pics. No one felt offended but I only remember that I felt very sorry for those poor guys and couln't understand why some of the Germans on these pics were smiling posing over the dead airmen...and my wish was to find out the names our 'our' heroes from the sky one day. The Velvet revolution changed it all and gave the possibilities to our town to get in touch with the battle survivors and give the names to all 41 airmen who were KIA in the battle so also to those 28 of them who were buried in a mass grave in Slavicin, my born town. When I was kid I remember the grave with the headstone where there was written: 28 American fliers, KIA on Aug. 29, 1944, exhumed on Sept 5, 1946. Nothing else. Since 1994 each flyboy has his own name on the headstone.

All these pics you can see in our 3 museums that are dedicated to this battle, in the publication that was published in Czech and English version in 1945, in several books that were published few years ago and since 2014 also on our web. In our museums we had during the years many visitors, many relatives of the battle survivors and victims, the active duty airmen from the USAF (2 BW, 5BW and 307 BW) and also the people from the US Embassy and none of them felt ever offended by these pics.

I like watching the history channels and in almost every document, if not in all, you can see the dead soldiers, at least Germans or the victims from the concentration camps. So I only repeat, that we are not showing the pics to dishonor these poor guys, but to show to all the people what the war is, what the war mean and that we must never forget how much our past generations paid for our today's freedom. And we do our best that the sacrifice of those young men will never be forgotten.

But for sure, If any of the family members of the fallen would ask me for hidding these pics, I´d do it. It never happened so far.

Just to turn the page, let me show you few intersting links:

- Pics from the visit (2010) of Dudley P. Merrell, a nephew of Dudley E. Standrindge, the tail gunner http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/udalo ... akce-2010/
- Dudley Standridge, the tail gunner http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/osobn ... tandridge/
- Carl S. Goodman, co-pilot http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/osobn ... s-goodman/ and his grave in Belgium https://youtu.be/QPiZ8W60W1o Carl had a cousine whose son was Michael J. Smith, the pilot who perished during a Challenger space shuttle disaster...
- Pics from the visit (2017) of Jane Pifer, a daughter of Richard P. Hartman, the bombardier http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/udalo ... orm-pifer/ Jane was born 6 days after her father's death...
- Richard P. Hartman, the bombardier http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/osobn ... p-hartman/

Nice weekend to all!

Roman

[Mark Allen M]

Thanks Roman for all that you and your partners are doing. With each day that pasts the true history of WWII is being either lost or altered. It's beyond tragic how much of the younger generations know so little and care so little about the sacrifices of the Greatest Generation.

Keep up your great work and reach out anytime if there's anything I can do to help.

Thanks again Roman

Mark

[seesul]

Thank you Mark.

Here's the video footage from 2017 that was taken during the visit of Jane Pifer, daughetr of the bombardier, who was born 6 days after her father's death. Commemoration at the mass grave of 28 American fliers in Slavicin. https://youtu.be/2pCgeDbA6uo
Speech of Jennie Young from the US embassy starts at 3:40, speech of Jane Pifer starts at 9:20.

[FlyingFortB17]

This thread is really poignant, heartfelt, mature, and free of drama. It is highly appreciated and respected. Thank you for posting this story I have never heard about.