Pima expansion

[Martin80]

I hope this is ok here but has anyone any thoughts on this?
http://warbirdsnews.com/aviation-museum ... nding.html
It seems a huge gift of vehicles by the Imperial War Museum and would be very unpopular here in England especially as it mentions unique vehicles.

[Hooligan2]

I'm wondering if it's an American-based collection named Imperial War Museum rather than the UK one - might be some one local to Pima.

[LysanderUK]

There's a story going around the internet at the moment that states that the Land Warfare building at the western end of IWM Duxford is to be demolished and something like 50 vehicles from the collection will be going to Pima. The news seems to be coming from the Pima end of the chain at the moment, IWM are yet to comment.

[jamesintucson]

Everyone, I've been asked to post the following statement regarding Pima's new project:

"The Pima Air & Space Museum has a long established professional relationship with the Imperial War Museum, in particular its operation at Duxford in the UK. The museum is in communication with the collection’s management unit of the IWM in order to evaluate potential loan vehicles and equipment for our new enterprise that are listed on the IWM’s current manifest of approximately 50 macro artifacts which the IWM have designated as available for loans or transfers to qualified institutions. While no firm commitment has be reached, talks are ongoing, and we expect to be able to finalize mutually acceptable choices once Covid-19 restrictions are lifted in the UK. We then expect to begin the process of transporting artifacts here for our new museum. We are proud be trusted partners of the IWM and are firm supporters of the institution and its educational mission which aligns with the Pima Air & Space Museum's."

James

[JohnB]

For those of you who haven't been there, the Land Warfare collection at the IWM Duxford has a lot more than 50 vehicles.
So they certainly are not "giving away" the entire collection or anywhere close to it.
A lot of the stuff seemed to me, hardly a military vehicle expert, to be UK centric, which I can't see Pima wanting. Especially if they have to pay the shippng.

A neat thing about the Pima expansion...perhaps they'll have room to run vehicles...Duxford did and you'd see tanks or Land Rivers being put through their paces..

[StangStung]

I am excited to see how this turns out. Given what a great museum and program they're running at Pima now, I can only see this being first class. Plus, there's lots of running around room out there perfect for military vehicles.

[Noha307]

FWIW, the Warbird News article seems to match a memorandum from Pima County.

The museum already has a large collection of land vehicles. According to a previous post in the GSE thread, their collection includes:

Land Vehicles at the Pima Air & Space Museum

• Bierderman O-11
• Buda-Hebard Company J223
• Caterpillar 212
• Checker Cab M105A2
• Chevrolet Firetruck
• Chevrolet Rescue Truck
• Cleveland M2 Cletrac
• Consolidated MD-3 Aircraft Generator
• Dodge WC-54
• Federal CF-55-AF
• Ford Mark 2, Mod 2 Bomb Service Truck
• Ford Jeep
• General Dynamics / Convair Launch Control Center
• General Dynamics / Convair Transporter Erector Launcher
• GMC Firetruck
• GMC XM-211 Cargo Truck
• International Firetruck
• J.G. Brill Company M-7
• Kaiser-Jeep M35A2
• Motor Generator Company
• Oshkosh M3000
• Parabam Incorporated PU-64 Astrodome Shelter
• Roll-O-Matic
• Unknown Start Cart
• Unknown 90mm M118 AA Gun
• Unknown Bomb Dolly
• Walters Crash Rescue CB3000

When I was there in November 2018, many them were sitting out behind the restoration hangar and I assume a desire to move them inside was part of the catalyst for the expansion:

It's also worth noting that they have a significant number of aircraft with a British connection, including an example of nearly every member of the Harrier family. (XV-6A, AV-8C, TAV-8A, F(A).2 GR.3, GR.5) While the latter three were acquired through a private company (Everett Aero) and not the IWM, it does demonstrate a distinct connection to British military history.

I mean Pima basically exists as an "aviation museum of last resort" - when an airplane can't go elsewhere (usually due to its large size) it ends up at Pima (as such was the case with the B-36, DC-10, 747, 777, 787). So maybe this is an indication that those 50 vehicles were something that the IWM just can't afford to hold on to anymore.

I also have to wonder if they were inspired by what the Collings Foundation did with the American Heritage Museum. (Which, coincidentally enough, also started with a slightly controversial sale of some of the holdings from the Military Vehicle Technology Foundation.)

There's a story going around the internet at the moment that states that the Land Warfare building at the western end of IWM Duxford is to be demolished and something like 50 vehicles from the collection will be going to Pima. The news seems to be coming from the Pima end of the chain at the moment, IWM are yet to comment.

Apparently this rumor has been around since 2018, as I found a forum thread discussing it from back then. (Helpfully, it also included a link to a list of the vehicles at Duxford.) I also came across another more recent thread that makes the same claim.

[junkman9096]

By "direct transfer" to they mean long term loan or full ownership?

[Zac Yates]

It seems a huge gift of vehicles by the Imperial War Museum and would be very unpopular here in England especially as it mentions unique vehicles.

Over at the Key.Aero and UKAR forums discussion has been...vigorous, to say the least!

[Chris Brame]

Paging Scott: Should these two current Pima threads be merged?

[JohnB]

I hope this is ok here but has anyone any thoughts on this?
http://warbirdsnews.com/aviation-museum ... nding.html
It seems a huge gift of vehicles by the Imperial War Museum and would be very unpopular here in England especially as it mentions unique vehicles.

But what do they mean by "unique"?
The IWM news release on the Key forum used that word, but having written more news releases than I care to count, and knowing how to read, the word "unique" might just mean "unusual" and NOT one of a kind historic items.
The UK alarmists make it sound like they are sending Monty"s command post or the Queen's ceremonial carriage.

They don't seem to trust the IWM...NOT to do anything stupid!

At any rate, some of the items...lend lease supplied American made Jeeps, tanks, artillery...might be considered that they are returning to their original purchasers.

Their alarmist talk is a bit reminiscent of the talk perpetrated by the Vulcan restoration supporters when they said "If you don't give us monsy, the yanks will buy it and you'll never see it again", despite, to the best of my knoeu, there was no serious American buyer.

And don't forget a few years ago some in the UK and particularly the Key/FlyPast forum (a moderator in particular), were very critical of the RAF Museum loaning Pima the late model, low-back Spitfire which they removed from STORAGE. So, based on that, I don't think I they like to share.

[JohnB]

Noah 307... "...A significant number of aircraft with a British connection..." .

Correct!
Pima's UK critics don't appreciate the fact it has more UK-designed aircraft than most UK museums!

[Mike]

And don't forget a few years ago some in the UK and particularly the Key/FlyPast forum (a moderator in particular), were very critical of the RAF Museum loaning Pima the late model, low-back Spitfire which they removed from STORAGE. So, based on that, I don't think I they like to share.

Factually incorrect - it had been on public display for decades, first at Cosford, then in Manchester, and latterly in the Bomber Hall at Hendon.

[JohnB]

I didn't say the aircraft had NEVER been on display, rather the Spitfire was not on display at time it was sent to Arizona.
The key point is that it was not "taken away" from anyone.the

And if it was on display at Hendon...it certainly wasn't the only Spitfire there. On my most recent visit, I had lunch sitting next to one at the cafe.

[Mike]

It was dismantled in the Bomber Hall at Hendon, and shipped from there to Pima. A look at the detailed history of this particular aircraft shows that the last time it was in storage was in 1964, it has always been on display since then.